Help BK7 341 meeting FLOPPED

[badgambler]

I have over 100k in gambling debt.. 20k or so in late fees and interest...

Have a attorney.. Who of course sent a stand in today who said NOTHING while the trustee just kept saying.. To much debt to discharge.. Prove you gambled...

Here is the problem... Online casino can only forward me one month of statements from Jan of this year... I quite gambling on 02/03 of this year thank god.. They are unable to give me any deposit history past this point.. I guess me oweing them money also may have something to do with them only providing me limited access..The money I gambled at the local casino was all cash... I was of course gambling behind my wifes back so I didnt want to use a players card which would result in mailings to my home..

All the evidence I have is my DEC/Jan banking statement showing all the transactions with online casinos.. The statement from Partypoker about my months worth of deposits.. Totalling 20k..

The trustee told the person in place of my attorney to have my attorney call her and perhaps waive the discharge..?? What the hell is that..

Also.. Just cause the trustee thinks I am full of BS...It is the judges final call right?? I have no equity in my home or cars.. Nothing to sell..

Please help.. I was doing okay up until this.. Now I am scared to death..

[FilingOnMyOwn]

I hate to say it, but you might be sol for now. If they dismiss your case, you could try filing again in another 6 months or so. I've never heard of a trustee saying 'too much debt to discharge', unless the reason was specifically directed toward it being completely irresponsible spending, rather than something like medical bills etc.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

I'm a bit surprised your attorney didn't ask you to provide proof of where the 100k went before filing. It is the judge that does get the last word and you should be ok if you can produce ALL records of where the money went. The trustee doesn't care about what you spent it on they just need to see documents of where it is and that you are not hiding any of it. If you can produce this you should be fine. If not then I don't know what to tell you except best of luck.
The amount doesn't mean anything. You just need to prove where it all went.

[anonymuse]

Are you saying you lost 100K in just a couple of months?

Where are all of your credit card and bank statements for the past year? Were you taking cash advances on your credit or just cash out of the bank account? If you didn't save the statements, it might cost a couple bucks each, but go order them to have paper copies.

Was all of this online gambling? Ever had a win where they asked for your SSN since they need to report is as income?

Have you spoken to someone at the online casino as opposed to email contact? Tell them you are disputing how much you owe them; therefore, you won't consider paying them unless they give you a full accounting of your account.

[badgambler]

How is someone with a gambling problem suppose to produce ALL their records for gambling losses? I never wrote the loses off on my income taxes because while I was going through the entire thing I never thought I would not evenyually win it back..

I can show one months worth of gambling deposits totaling 20k from the online casino.. Credit card statements can show purchases for "phone cards" which are a deposit method the online casinos so you can use your mastercard and visa.. I can show nothing from the local casinos as I was not bringing a players card in out of fear my wife would get some stupid promotional mailing..

I can show my last two months of checking account statements showing withdrawls to the casinos and for cash totaling near 60k..

I mean I would have been better off going in there and saying I have a horrible drug problem...

The debt was amassed from early in 2005 through Jan of 2006.. Last transaction on the credit cards were in early Jan.. Filed my bk papers on 06/30/2006..

Thanks for the replies..

[gunsmoke]

This trustee doesn't want to see gambling records. He wants to put you in a ch 13. State your case to the judge. Let the judge make the decision.

[SinkingFast]

I feel for you BG. I can only imagine how gut wrenching this is for you right now.

Hopefully, the Trustee was just having a bad day personally. Maybe he/she will think more clearly later, when reviewing your case again.

Fingers crossed for you.

Maybe your attny can request the necessary records from your CC's and the casinos to validate your claims.

Sending best wishes and prayers your way.

Remember,.......... We're always here for you to lean on.

[anonymuse]

BG, I'm sorry about your attorney--he just doesn't seem to be prepared for this and it is not fair to you. Remember, you pay him dang good money for his services and get the answers from him that you seek. If necessary, ask to speak to other lawyers in the firm, if available.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

How is someone with a gambling problem suppose to produce ALL their records for gambling losses? I never wrote the loses off on my income taxes because while I was going through the entire thing I never thought I would not evenyually win it back..

I can show one months worth of gambling deposits totaling 20k from the online casino.. Credit card statements can show purchases for "phone cards" which are a deposit method the online casinos so you can use your mastercard and visa.. I can show nothing from the local casinos as I was not bringing a players card in out of fear my wife would get some stupid promotional mailing..

I can show my last two months of checking account statements showing withdrawls to the casinos and for cash totaling near 60k..

I mean I would have been better off going in there and saying I have a horrible drug problem...

The debt was amassed from early in 2005 through Jan of 2006.. Last transaction on the credit cards were in early Jan.. Filed my bk papers on 06/30/2006..

Thanks for the replies..

Ok so you can show the 60k cash you withdrew from your checking statment? Is this what you meant? If you did withdraw such a large amount like that YOU MUST find a way to get proof that it was all blown in the casino. Showing the trustee a large amount of cash withdrawn without this being accounted for is pretty dangerous. Maybe your attorney can assist with this, probably for a fee, but it's imperative you show the trustee where this money went. Don't lose your cool, don't panic, just start getting this together with your attorney. Your attorney should have had you prepare for this before filing.

[aa06a47]

BadGambler, sorry to hear of your issues. Being a gambler myself, I understand how losses this size can quickly put a person in quick sand.

Since you gambled without use of player cards and since on-line casion's are not exactly legal, then the best you can do is create an itemized list of when you gambled, how much you gambled and how much you lost. You might be able to get a pretty close estimate of that by looking at your credit card statements / bank withdrawals. Another helpful thing might be to prove you have gotten help for your addiction, such as attending GA, or medical assistance for your problem.

Your probably going to have to go before a judge, so I would start gathering all the documentation you can and making the log of when and how much you gambled. I don't think the trustee want's to chapter 13 you, however, his/her thinking is that you have the money buried in the back yard.

Did any of the creditors object to your bankruptcy?...or is this just a trustee gone wild? Sounds like you waited an appropriate amount of time to get off the radar screen of the credit card companies.

[badgambler]

BadGambler, sorry to hear of your issues. Being a gambler myself, I understand how losses this size can quickly put a person in quick sand.

Since you gambled without use of player cards and since on-line casion's are not exactly legal, then the best you can do is create an itemized list of when you gambled, how much you gambled and how much you lost. You might be able to get a pretty close estimate of that by looking at your credit card statements / bank withdrawals. Another helpful thing might be to prove you have gotten help for your addiction, such as attending GA, or medical assistance for your problem.

Your probably going to have to go before a judge, so I would start gathering all the documentation you can and making the log of when and how much you gambled. I don't think the trustee want's to chapter 13 you, however, his/her thinking is that you have the money buried in the back yard.

Did any of the creditors object to your bankruptcy?...or is this just a trustee gone wild? Sounds like you waited an appropriate amount of time to get off the radar screen of the credit card companies.

No creditors objected to the BK..

Since my creditors received notice of me filing for BK, they are totally unwilling to help me obtain past statements.. They refer me to the legal department who in turn never return my call..

My lawyer said he was more concerned with my home and y equity and did not think the gambling would be a area the trustee would show much concern in.. Well today he is suppose to be calling her and seeing what we can do..

I can understand the trustee being nervous about the money being hidden in the back yard and so forth.. But she better be able to prove I am full of crap if she is accussing me of fraud.. I am getting everything I can together.. and more then likely will plead my case in front of a judge..

When I pulled my credit report all but 3 household credit accounts were listed with zero balances and as included in bankruptcy...Since I claimed bk prior to the accounts being sold off to collection companies... I only had OC's on my credit report.. Right now my FICO score is 588 which isnt to bad for being 120k in debt..

I am a bit more calm today... I mean the worse is over.. I have my gambling problem in check and I was lucky enough to save my marriage.. Everthing else is cake.. and worse case ... I get a garnishment on my paycheck if and when I ever get taken to court by a creditor.. That really is the worse thing that can happen.. No equity in my home and we dont plan on leaving anytime soon..

Heck if I was trying to pull some fraud.. I would have claimed my Durango.. I owe 20k on it and it is currently worth 10k... But I only claimed my gambling debt on the credit cards....

OH well.. we shall see what the trustee says to my lawyer..

Oh ya.. She took real issue with my wife not working.. and my home only being in my name.. When I tried to explain we have 3 yound children and any money earned would go to childcare.. She didnt care or want to hear it.. The home is only in my name becuase when we got it 18 months ago.. I had perfect credit and my wife was kinda iffy having just come out of a divorce.. So my banker had her sign a waiver of homestead.. This seemed to make the trustee distrust me even more.. wonder why??

[SinkingFast]

It's not uncommon these days, when one spouse works and the other doesn't, that the mortgage Lender put the note, and possibly even the Deed/Title in one person's name. The person earning the income.

When Hubby and I bought our last house, I had been working prior to the move. Part time. So the Lender listed both of us on the note and the Deed. When we refi'd several years ago, I wasn't working at the time. That Lender put the note in Hubby's name only.

I have several "girl friends" that had the same thing happen. SAHM's who when they refi'd or purchased their homes, the Lender only put the one name on the acct.

Wonder why the Trustee isn't saavy enough to know that Banks are doing that these days??!!

[badgambler]

Here is the response I got from my lawyer Thursday... He seems very sincere and I went through allot of meetings prior to hiring him... I hope he is as good as I thought (think) he is..

Mr. badgambler:

I may not have an opportunity to review this matter until Monday.

I can understand how you feel, but let me explain somethings.

To begin with, you attended a meeting. It is known as "341" meeting, based upon the section of the Bankruptcy Code in which it is found. It is not a hearing, it is not a trial. I have attended hundreds of meetings over the years where, other than stating my name when asked, i have said absolutely nothing. Therefore, the fact that Kelly said nothing is meaningless. The meeting is not a forum for debate or argument,

Secondly, the information and knowledge that Kelly had came from documentation and information that I gave her. I focused on what I thought was important, your home, it's value, the equity, and I provided her with information about the special assessment. I saw no other issues; the reason for a lot of your debt, gambling, was "not on my radar" with regard to this meeting.

Thirdly, I have found in the past Ms. trustee to be "quite fussy" about issues and not always the easiest trustee with which to deal; also, she often has more "bark than bite".

Please allow me time to review, to speak to her. I will be back in touch with you. You hired me to represent you; I will.

[SinkingFast]

That's GREAT, BG!!

At least you got a response to your concerns, and reassurance that your attny is gonna address the issues.

Sometimes BK attnys have schedule conflicts like any of us do. We know a couple that met with a "sub" attny for their 341 also. Not that the attny hadn't prepped the couple or the sub attny. Just he could not physically be in 2 places at one time. Their case went thru OK.

So just hold tight. Sounds like your attny is on top of things.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Sounds good. You have 60 days to be cautiously optimistic. If you don't already have one why not get a pacer account so you can keep a close eye on your case daily to help you sleep at night. Hope you have smooth sailing for the next 2 months.