Is this even legal?

[ParanoidAsWell]

Sorry guys, i'm on my way out the door and don't have a lot of time to search the site right now, but thought i'd drop a quick post to ask A) If this is legal and B) if not, what can be done about it?

Yesterday one of the people attempting to collect on my debt, called my home. I'm back home with my parents while i'm dealing with this whole bankruptcy ordeal. Anyway, i wasn't at home, but my father was and answered the phone.

I'm not sure if she was an attorney or a collector, but to make this long post shorter, she basically went into detail with my father about the amount of debt I owed that she was calling on, the amount of debts I had outstanding on top of that debt, as well as trying to go through a negotiation process with him on what she is willing to cut the cost to, if i call her back. Doesn't this violate my privacy? I saw this in one of the stickies, but wasn't sure if third parties include family members...

(b) COMMUNICATION WITH THIRD PARTIES. Except as provided in section 804, without the prior consent of the consumer given directly to the debt collector, or the express permission of a court of competent jurisdiction, or as reasonably necessary to effectuate a postjudgment judicial remedy, a debt collector may not communicate, in connection with the collection of any debt, with any person other than a consumer, his attorney, a consumer reporting agency if otherwise permitted by law, the creditor, the attorney of the creditor, or the attorney of the debt collector.

Any insight would be great. As always, thanks again.

[no_it_all]

I'm guessing it was a creditor and not a debt collector. If so, then it is perfectly legal for them to contact a family member. You probably put him down as a reference on the loan application.

[CPO]

Boy, that sure looks like a sure case of third party disclosure....

pm me...I might be able to help you on this.

CPO

[CPO]

Like no it all said...assuming it was not the original creditor calling....that's legal...

CPO

[ParanoidAsWell]

It wasn't the creditor because she had initially left a message on my cellphone voicemail (which i regrettably deleted) which said she was calling in regards to a case that had been filed in her office that morning. I haven't spoken with her yet, but I haven't paid my bills in months and this particular creditor had tried forever to contact me finally leaving me alone after threatening to send it on to a third party. I didn't wanna call her yet because i'm still a bit angry at the fact that she can just share my personal/private details.

Anyway, I can see if my father remembers who or where she was representing, so that I can give a better description/details.

But I am shocked to see that even if it were the creditor they can still give out my financial details to just anybody. Wouldn't that still be a violation of my privacy? I could understand if it were another creditor, etc...but anybody in this house that picks up the phone can basically be privy to my personal financial situation? That strikes me as a bit improper...but i guess the law is the law, and if they say it's cool, who am I to argue?

[CPO]

Don't be too shocked. Many collectors willfully violate the law...they figure that if they get sued, then its just the price of business.

I have received many collection calls from NCO, Nationwide and Wells Fargo Financial that overtly break the law. Threats, concealing their identity...I had one guy from NCO that told me he was down the street and was going to get the police and come and get me...

I told him to bring friends....

I have retained an attorney out of Chicago (on the advice of my attorney) that works these cases...makes a good living from this and gets a few dollars for his clients too...enough to pay a BK attorney for services.

Its all on a contingency basis.

I record the calls, log them in, forward the tapes to him and he files suit.

CPO

[no_it_all]

Many creditors (Chase, Citibank, etc) have in-house collection departments staffed by attorneys. They are not debt collectors but employed directly by the credit grantor. Just because you received a message saying that a case has been filed in her office doesn't mean she is a debt collector.

As pointed out in the previous posts..Yeah, the law is broken all the time but there isn't much you can do. Recording the calls sounds like a good idea though....

[mlpntr]

Mind if I get the name of this lawyer? I live outside of Chicago.
I am soooooooooo tired of RJM calling me and threatening me. My Ch7 was discharged 3/12/2007 and RJM is still demanding money and claiming that the CH7 doesn't mean I'm not responsible for my bills and they can call and harass me for 30 years if they want. What's funny is the debt is from a 1995 Fingerhut account. Inever had a Fingerhut account.
I have since started getting nasty with them on the phone. When i see the number come up I go to my office and shut the door so the kids can't hear me. Then I let loose. Last call (this morning) I asked them who's A hole I should pull the money out of. The guy called me a bi**h and hung up. LOL

I have retained an attorney out of Chicago (on the advice of my attorney) that works these cases...makes a good living from this and gets a few dollars for his clients too...enough to pay a BK attorney for services.

Its all on a contingency basis.

I record the calls, log them in, forward the tapes to him and he files suit.

CPO

[CPO]

Mind if I get the name of this lawyer? I live outside of Chicago.
I am soooooooooo tired of RJM calling me and threatening me. My Ch7 was discharged 3/12/2007 and RJM is still demanding money and claiming that the CH7 doesn't mean I'm not responsible for my bills and they can call and harass me for 30 years if they want. What's funny is the debt is from a 1995 Fingerhut account. Inever had a Fingerhut account.
I have since started getting nasty with them on the phone. When i see the number come up I go to my office and shut the door so the kids can't hear me. Then I let loose. Last call (this morning) I asked them who's A hole I should pull the money out of. The guy called me a bi**h and hung up. LOL

PM me.....

CPO

[DeadManCrawling]

Mind if I get the name of this lawyer? I live outside of Chicago.
I am soooooooooo tired of RJM calling me and threatening me. My Ch7 was discharged 3/12/2007 and RJM is still demanding money and claiming that the CH7 doesn't mean I'm not responsible for my bills and they can call and harass me for 30 years if they want. What's funny is the debt is from a 1995 Fingerhut account. Inever had a Fingerhut account.
I have since started getting nasty with them on the phone. When i see the number come up I go to my office and shut the door so the kids can't hear me. Then I let loose. Last call (this morning) I asked them who's A hole I should pull the money out of. The guy called me a bi**h and hung up. LOL

OOPS. I missed the part that says you are already discharged. I imagine you have a legal claim. Let us know.

I am going to leave the following, in case anyone STILL IN the process needs to see it-maybe it can help someone else.

Careful with how you handle these calls. While it is NOT illegal to say anything you want (except death threats I suppose), the WRONG thing said can bite you in the ass later.

In several cases, judges have listened to recordings (made by creditors) of these types of collection calls when determining factors such as "substantial abuse" and "totality of the circumstances".

For instance, you blow oyur top at a collections person (even if they deserve it) and say angrily "You will never get a $#@^% penny from me." Later, that COULD be used by the creditor to object to having their debt discharged. If you, say, had acquired the debt in the "window" of time of 60-90 days PRIOR to the CALL, they could argue that you filed in BAD FAITH and never intended to pay them. If the judge agreed, you would not be able to discharge the debt in BK.

My attorney advised us to:

1. Never ever commit to sending a payment, or even saying you will when you have no plans to.

2. Always be vague. Simply tell them you don't have the money "right now".

3. Just hang up on em. COLLECTIONS is their business. They are USED to being hung up on. In fact, you may be the only poor sucker who has stayed on the line for them in many hours.

4. Remember-this IS their job. If they can rattle you, they will. They want to frighten you into sending more money. They want you to feel threatened. Many of their techniques are designed for YOU specifically, through computer modeling programs that help the company extract evey dollar they can from your wallet.

One such program, according to an IRS handbook for auditing banks, can predict with NINETY FIVE PERCENT accuracy how much they can get from you and how long it will take. It is all plugged into the computer program based on your FICO score, neighborhood, spending habits, purchases, age, kind of car you drive, etc. It's a computerized dragnet that can create a collection "Strategy" custom tailored to you as an individual. Frightening concept, but true.

I woud just hang up on them. If they make you upset, they have achieved their goal. And they willnote it in the file if nothing else, indicating that they can rattle your cage. Might even encourage them to do it more.

Best piece of advice I received, on this board: Treat this like a business matter. Remove your emotion from the equation and look at it in the same way the creditors do: Cold hard calculations, only numbers, that you need to work with to better your family's future.

[TEW]

This is what I did. I had my land line turned off a while back and they only have my cell number. In my phone I can restrict call to address book only. Then I removed the greeting from my voice mail.
I only get calls from people I know. The creditors have only left a couple of messages. It’s best not to talk to them if you are filing you are under enough stress over this already.
You can ask them for their fax number fax them a letter that tells them not to contact you by phone and to us mail only. If you do talk to them give them your lawyers name and phone number. And hang up.