Proof of my lunatic theory?

[DeadManCrawling]

I have posted extensively on the way debt providers filter and use information about you to model your behavior on an individual basis. I will not recount all that here, but have an interesting story that may offer some insight and perhaps proof of my lunatic idea.

Basically, I think that modeling programs can predict your credit behavior far in advance and that the credit companies are using very sophisticated programs to track you and predict what you will do.

Here's the story.

Over the last few years, we have hosted some major parties at our home on certain holidays. One of those is Memorial Day, which just passed.

We typically would have 50-70 people in our home for a big bbq and pool party.

We are high income filers, as well, and live in a rather exclusive gated community.

Many of our purchases in the past to fund these parties were made on credit cards. We were in a much better financial situation at the time and it was more convenient to do it that way.

Enter the year 2007. All hell breaks loose with our finances, we see an income drop by 180k per year. We stopped paying on credit cards 2 months ago.

We received a few calls here and there, and ignored them.

Memorial Day weekend begins.

Friday-3 calls from 2 different companies.

Saturday-8 calls from three companies.

Sunday-No calls.

Monday (Memorial Day, our usual party day)-356 calls in 9 hours from seven companies. That is FORTY calls AN HOUR. In One day.

Our phone was ringing nonstop, all day.

I believe that the companies knew we would typically be having a party on that day, and their intent was to embarrass and shame us into making payments by calling so often. By calling when we would be at our most vulnerable, in terms of having friends, family and business associates asking "Aren't you going to answer that?"

We didn't have a party, though, on Memorial Day. We went to a friend's home and had a great time.

Now, today, the day AFTER Memorial Day, I have been in my home office working for a few hours. Not ONE phone call so far.

Seems to be evidence that my crazy theory is in fact real.

I can't think of any other way to look at it. If you can, do please share. I am open to other ideas, but can't seem to come up with any other reasonable explanations.

Best wishes,


-DMC

[BassBoy]

LOL......that's a great theory and I wouldn't doubt it. On the other hand, a holiday is when they are most likely to catch you at home. I like your thinking though.

[GoingDown]

That is amazing about how many calls you got on Memorial Day! And you're right... they most certainly do pay attention to what you buy with your credit cards. I made the mistake of buying a pay as you go cell phone with one of my credit cards, and they got that number somehow and started calling relentlessly on it, so I just stopped puting any more pay as you go time cards on the phone and it went dead.

And yes, they will do everything they can to try to embarass or shame you into paying. That's why they love to call people at work and to call neighbors and relatives.

[HenriettaHen]

I'm always up for a testing an hypothesis - or, as we Hens always query, "which came first, me or the egg?"


Hmmnnnn.


Let's start by making some assumptions and you can test them. Let's brainstorm. (lay an egg, as it were)


Assumption: I'm guessing that "the companies" are run on computer schedules, with your data moving through the pipeline as your payment history has deteriorated.

First, your account is moved to in-house collections, almost as soon as you miss a payment - especially if you've been late before.

You stay there for about two months or so, then you you get a blizzard of calls before they move you to third-party collections.

Query: Is it about 2 months into non-payment? Yesterday was the 28th of the month ... book-closing time.


Here's another one. There is something called the Universal Default Act, which allows any creditor with whom you are LATE/IN DEFAULT, to share that information with other creditors. That is their red flag, and they will begin to do some stuff that makes you get Desk Phobia. Like raise your interest rates, start calling you if you are late, etc.


Query: Do you think this might account for the flush of calls? Memorial Day notwithstanding? Don't forget that very many of these call centers are not located physically inside this country. A Monday the 28th is a Monday the 28th.

Okay, 'BuGAWK' ! How about keeping a log of calls? That will help you to make sense out of what is happening, and maybe help to keep away that feeling of yellow eyes staring at you from outside in the darkness.

Seriously!

It's useful to have a bird's eye view - it helps you to see that the sky is not, indeed, falling.

[whatamess]

On Memorial day

We had probably 30 calls fom Bofa. Sunday was very quiet according to our caller ID.
Many of the calls from BOfa are either coming in from Latin America or they hired all hispanic folks to do the dirty work.
WAM

[DeadManCrawling]

Well, two days have almost passed since Memorial Day. Our astonishing total of nealry 360 calls has not yet been matched by far.

Henrietta, I checked out your points.

We are actually 5 and a half weeks out from stopping payments on cards, sot he 60 day theory would not seem to apply, though it made a great deal of sense when I read it. All of our calls are presumably from the original creditors at this point. Advanta has been most active by far, but others are catching up.

Yesterday our calls totalled 16.

Today, so far, there have been 4.

Best wishes,

-dmc

[Runnin on empty]

DMC - I think you're spot on. Of course, it is natural to figure that they will attempt to call more over a holiday weekend as it is the best chance of catching someone at home, but 40 calls an hours is just stinkin' ridiculous.

They're profiling us just as much as the retailers do with the "shopper's club" cards. They get a bead on your spending habits each time you swipe that card, and it seems as though the CC companies are doing the same.

[whatamess]

Shopping cards

Why do they watch what you buy? Is it to get a demographic for business reasons and stocking of supplies? To see what ages customers are, and what those ages buy? To see what people of various socio-economic backrounds buy and spend? I always assumed this was it. I hate the whole thing, and my husband never remembers to bring the cards anyhow. However, you cant get the sale price w/o them. It annoys me to no end.
In Korea, you can buy transit passes and purchase goods with your cell phone!!! Your cell is connected to your bank. When you want to ride the subway, you point your cell screen to the censor on the subway gate and it beeps the amount off your transit pass. Same with purchases in larger dept stores. I find it creepy and Orwelian.
My father use to put a blanket on the cable box; he swore that it was a spy tool. I thought he was bonkers!!! My fathers family is very paranoid former soviet block, folks.
SO glad to be an all cash girl now. I have my debit for emergencys and cash withdrawl. Big brother can kiss it.
WAM

[DeadManCrawling]

I agree it is creepy and very Orwellian. George would be amazed.

I think there are two reasons they do this. I have posted on the methods extensively, and am even reading a very intense statistical analysis of the process, written by a statistics professor at Georgetown University.

Reason 1: They want to see what you buy and when to market other products more effectively. Got a discount card at the local supermarket or another vendor? A bonus rewards card? The fine print states that they will log your habits to "better serve you". Buy a new computer, and you will likely receive mail or email offers for computer security programs, new online access providers, and so forth. Drive an old truck and have a series of mechanical problems that are paid for on credit? Look for offers from local car dealers or national auto manufacturers. After all, they figure you may be considering a trade-in or new purchase.

The flip side is:

Reason 2. All the same information that is used to "help" you when times are good can be flipped over and used to collect more from you when you are on the verge of bk, as we are.

It's legal, but terribly immoral, I think.

-dmc

[Runnin on empty]

It's legal, but terribly immoral, I think.

-dmc

Agreed. They're attempting to manipulate our buying habits by sending targeted marketing. I was listening to the radio on the way in to work yesterday, and they said that a study was recently done that had a group of people convinced that they were eating strawberry yogurt, when in fact, both were vanilla flavored yogurt. A few test subjects were even heard saying that one of the samples tasted quite a bit more strawberry than the other.

Just goes to show if we're conditioned enough, they can throw us any line they want and we'll bite.

[SinkingFast]

Why do they watch what you buy? Is it to get a demographic for business reasons and stocking of supplies? To see what ages customers are, and what those ages buy? To see what people of various socio-economic backrounds buy and spend? I always assumed this was it. I hate the whole thing, and my husband never remembers to bring the cards anyhow. However, you cant get the sale price w/o them. It annoys me to no end.

WAM

I remember when stores started that stuff. Back when our kids were wearing diapers. News reports that stores would start tracking your purchase habits to tailor special offers to your needs and wants. I thought, "How cool!! Now they'll know to send me/give me coupons or special prices on diapers, formula, and baby food."

Now I know there are so many other things they can do with the info they gather, I could care less about getting "special offers".

[HenriettaHen]

Sheesh, you guys orta be on X-Files!

DMC, I should have also included in-house customer service in the progression of paperwork. That's where you go first when you stop paying - then after a while there, off you go to in-house collections.

I did keep a call log for some months, and while I was surprised by the ebb and flow of calls - I took this to signify my progression through the system.

Like you, I DID go through a paranoid period, when I was waiting for a sheriff or other bad guy to pop up from behind my hedges - and where I almost felt they could tell I was was home, etc. .....

But I have since calmed down and realized that for such a thing to be true - for instance, for them calling you to embarrass you in front of your friends at a house party - "they" would have to be all collaborating in a great mutual espionage effort, with all the collective intent and knowledge necessary to single each person out for special harassment....and frankly, that's pretty far-fetched. They're just not that good - if they were, then "they" would have already vanquished their real enemy, BANKRUPTCY.

Please try not to spook yourselves with this kind of thinking, it's highly counter-productive and will cause you to think and act reactively, instead of pro-actively on your own behalf.

Yes, they do of course collect information on you for marketing purposes, and yes, this information can be used for "other purposes".... but the idea that they are so specialized as to be all getting together to bug you on that one day, just to embarrass you - well, that's going overboard in the "getting the creeps" department!

It's far more likely that missing your payments has red-flagged your account, and the computers now all have your number on their auto-dialer - and it's dialing you! Over and over and over.

If you set the Man up as your enemy in this, you will make it much harder on yourself - just the stress alone. It's not THAT bad.

YET.

[SinkingFast]

Like you, I DID go through a paranoid period, when I was waiting for a sheriff or other bad guy to pop up from behind my hedges - and where I almost felt they could tell I was was home, etc. .....

I went thru a spell where I swore everyone who looked at me KNEW we were broke, in financial ruin, and prepping to file BK.

Clerks at the store knew. People out on the street knew. Passers by in cars could look at us in our car and know. The teller at the Bank knew.

Like I was wearing some sort of Scarlet Letter tattooed on my forehead or something.

But I got over it.

[DeadManCrawling]

Nah, I don't have any paranoia over this. In fact, I am viewing it as an "interesting blip" on the screen of life, the number of calls and the fashion in which they are made. To me, it is interesting to learn more about collections methods, the information used to fuel their efforts, and the timing of the whole thing.

I don't worry about it, or even care much. But the actual process, from an impersonal viewpoint, is utterly fascinating.

If I came across as though this were driving me to the far side of sanity, that is not the case. I am seriously just fascinated by reading all the information I have and watching it applied to my own case and that of a few friends who are going through bk at the same time.

Best wishes,

-dmc

[HenriettaHen]

Dear DMC - the actual process, from an intellectual viewpoint (the bird's eye view) is indeed utterly fascinating. As you say,

"I am viewing it as an "interesting blip" on the screen of life, the number of calls and the fashion in which they are made. To me, it is interesting to learn more about collections methods, the information used to fuel their efforts, and the timing of the whole thing.

I don't worry about it, or even care much. But the actual process, from an impersonal viewpoint, is utterly fascinating."

These are brave words, and you have said them. But by the time you are done with it, you will have been through a personal crucible.

Denial and distraction are part of this process, and you are early on in it. I have no doubt whatsoever that you will come out of this as an honest and forthright man, doing your part to collapse the American economy.

This is the worst part, and I did the same thing you are doing - maybe flying a little too high in the bird's eye view.

You need to get your feet firmly on today's actual earth, face your bankruptcy. Learn to live with it - and it might take a while. Chill. Learn to live on cash.

No getting around that.

Who luvs ya, baby? HH