Insolvent Estate Probate Advice from me

[GoingDown]

This is from my personal experience in dealing with the hopelessly insolvent estate of deceased relative.

If debt collectors start calling you and asking to speak to "the person handling the affairs of the late __________ ," hang up the phone immediately.

Don't speak to them. Don't send them a letter or anything in the mail. Don't communicate with them at all.

Any information they get from you will be turned around and used against you, eventhough you don't owe the debt.

[treehugger1]

Good advice, goingdown. In fact, I would think this is just the beginning of a new era where baby boomers will be "tracked down" in an attempt to satisfy debts of their parents or relatives. New and unchartered waters. (I'm assuming you are a baby boomer or the child of a baby boomer.)

[GoingDown]

Yes, my parents are baby boomers, but this particular debt was from a different deceased relative. I'm not even next of kin, but I'm still getting phone calls asking for all kinds of information.

One of the mistakes I made was answering a simple question-- the debt collector asked me "who am I speaking with?" and because it was not my debt, I had my guard down and I gave them my name. I should have known better.

Once they get a name, they run with it.

The next time they called they asked to speak to me about the debt and said that I was responsible to make sure that this debt was paid to prevent further collection action. I know they are lying, but now they have a real name to go after, and I would not be at all surprised to see this debt end up haunting me for years after this.

The deceased relative had a lot of debts, and I have been getting a lot of phone calls from creditors and debt collectors, and they all ask these scripted questions...

1. What is my name? Can I pay the debt now to prevent further collection action?
2. Am I the executor? If not, who is the executor?
3. What is the status of probate?
4. What did the deceased relative spend his money on? Did I ever use the credit card for purchases? Did the deceased relative ever buy anything for me with the credit card? Did the deceased relative ever give me anything bought with the credit card? Did I get any cash from the deceased relative within the last 6 months?
5. Did the deceased relative have any real estate?
6. Did the deceased relative have a checking account? Where? How much?
7. Did the deceased relative have any life insurance? Where? How much?
8. Did the deceased relative have a safe deposit box? Where?
9. The deceased relative's credit report shows a car loan with ___________ in the amount of $________ per month. Who is paying the payments on that car loan? Where is the car located? Who is driving the car?
10. Did the deceased relative have any other assets?

As you may have noticed they are always grabbing for any information they can possibly get, and they will turn it back around and use it against you once they get it.

They are not trying to help you during this time of grief and sorrow. They want to scare you into paying them or at least giving them information to use against you and other relatives later on.

So my advice is don't give them any information or you will be sorry. Just hang up the phone immediately, or don't even answer the phone if you know it's them calling.

When they leave a message on my answering machine they say:

"We need to speak to _________ (me) about _____________ (deceased person's debt). It is important that you call us back at __________ (phone number) by 4 p.m. today before we are forced to make a decision about this file. You may not like the decision we make without your input."

Some of these credit card debts are over $50,000 so they are very interested in getting them paid.





You're right about this becoming a huge problem for the children of baby boomers. They are going to be dealing with the debts of their deceased parents because so many people are running large credit card balances these days.

[Flamingo]

If your deceased relative had a will, in that will was named the Executor/Executrix of his estate. That is the person who handles any incoming mail or calls relating to the deceased's estate. The deceased's estate is responsible to pay any bills from any funds remaining in the estate. If you get any further calls on this matter, just advise the caller you are not the executor of the estate and have no knowledge of the estate matters.

If your deceased relative did not have a will, then his surviving spouse or children will have to handle the matters. If they are deceased or there is no wife or children, the deceased's parent(s) or siblings then take over, depending on the the state in which the deceased resided.

[GoingDown]

If your deceased relative had a will, in that will was named the Executor/Executrix of his estate. That is the person who handles any incoming mail or calls relating to the deceased's estate. The deceased's estate is responsible to pay any bills from any funds remaining in the estate. If you get any further calls on this matter, just advise the caller you are not the executor of the estate and have no knowledge of the estate matters.

If your deceased relative did not have a will, then his surviving spouse or children will have to handle the matters. If they are deceased or there is no wife or children, the deceased's parent(s) or siblings then take over, depending on the the state in which the deceased resided.

You would think that would work, but in reality, the debt collectors have been told many, many times that the estate is insolvent and that the family has no intentions of opening probate and there is no executor and there will be no executor, ever from the family. They have been told this on the phone and in writing. And yet, everyday they call and ask the same questions over and over again. One even said until they get paid they will continue to call.

Under Arizona Law, any creditor can open probate and become the executor themselves at 45 days after death. It has been months since the death, and none of them are doing that because that would cost them money, and they realize that since the estate is insolvent, there is very little chance that they will get anything more than pennies on the dollar of what is owed, if even that. So, they want to bully the relatives into either paying them directly or opening probate. We have no intention of doing either.

That is the lesson I'm trying to tell everyone out there who may face this situation with a relative in the future--
If the estate is insolvent, just do absolutely NOTHING. And take it one step further. When creditors call for the deceased relative or for information about the estate, just hang up on them. Don't give them any information. It won't stop them from calling anyways. You might think that if you give them information, they will stop calling you, but that's wrong. They will keep on calling until they get paid.

Here is a website that talks about the DO NOTHING approach...

" Do nothing. In general, relatives and friends have no legal obligation to do anything under the circumstances --- to pay the debts, to communicate with the creditors, to open a probate, whatever (some exceptions: a surviving spouse or if someone has contractually agreed to do it). So, by far the simplest solution is to walk away from the problem --- don't get involved. And if you choose this alternative, you should not begin taking any action at all, for example, by communicating with the creditors, and then change your mind and decide not to get involved any further. If you decide not to be involved, don't get involved --- from the start. Let the creditors do what they think is best to protect their own interests.



The "problem," however, with this alternative is that even if you have no legal obligation to pick up the pieces of the Decedent's death, the creditors and their collection agencies will do everything they can to try to get you to assume and pay the Decedent's obligations --- a true guilt trip. And they likely won't take "No" for an answer and will continue to hound you. After all, all they want is to get paid, and they don't care where the money comes from, as long as sooner or later, eventually, they get paid.



Consequently, while you may have no legal obligation to assume and pay an insolvent Decedent's obligations, if you tough it out and don't pay the creditors, you may not be out any money --- but ... the problem is that this alternative will likely cost you emotionally, with your getting repeatedly badgered by the creditors and their collection agencies, who will likely make threats to affect your credit ratings etc. This is not a "cost free" alternative.

http://www.wa-probate.com/Instructions/Insolvent-Estate.htm