Claims Against the Estate - No Estate...yet

[Snickers]

Geez, if it ain't one thing, its another. I guess I'm just venting but am curious whether any others here have been in this situation.

My husband passed away about 2 weeks ago. I just got the Death Certificates so have been copying & sending them out. Some creditors just took the info over the phone and (I suppose) verified the information themselves.

During his illness, I consulted with a BK Attorney, although BK didn't work out. But getting everything together for that, it turns out that the ONLY thing solely in hubby's name is 'my' truck, a 1989 Jeep Comanche sitting in the back yard with a dead battery & expired out-of-state tags. (Truthfully, the truck is in great shape for its age, just hasn't been driven in months.)

Anyway, Saturday afternoon I get 2 notices from Estate Information Services, LLC out of Columbus, OH. Apparently they specialize in collecting from dead folks. They are collecting for Citicorp (Radio Shack card 4K & Sears card 10k). Typical debt collection letter with the wording changed to reflect that the collection is now against the estate and wanting info etc. Even has the 30 day DV clause & required FDCA statements.

Thing is, I wasn't planning on opening an Estate or going through Probate. There just isn't anything worth a damn, lol. He had no will and Maryland says everything goes to me anyway because everything else of value...house, car, bank account...is joint.

Anyone dealt with Claims Against the Estate when there is no Estate? I'm just wondering if these guys will go away if I (or the Attorney) tells them there is no estate. Or if they could open an estate?

Meeting with the Insurance folks today then will call for an appointment with the Attorney to sort this out. I need to get my affairs in order anyway but this just adds another level of complexity. Sheesh.

[Flamingo]

My condolences for your loss...

Since there was no will, your husband's estate falls under Maryland law. You will need to review Maryland's probate law as papers will need to be filed to close out his estate, even if there are no assets. If the debts and other assets are in joint names, you will probably be responsible for payment of those debts. Get a good estate/probate lawyer to review your situation.

[Snickers]

Thank you...

Yeah, gonna get an appointment in the morning. I just have so much else going on that I was hoping to avoid the Probate process.

These cards were just in his name so I'm not responsible. But the more I think about it, the creditors for the cards in his name are never going to stop trying until a court tells them "nothing to collect here...go away". So I guess doing the Estate/Probate process has its advantages.

Plus I'm assuming since Estate Information Services, LLC specializes in death collection, they know the ins and outs and could make my life miserable.

One interesting thing: Looking at my notes, Radio Shack & Sears were the only 2 that did not request Death Certificates so CITI must contract out their whole Probate department.

[Flamingo]

Thank you...

Yeah, gonna get an appointment in the morning. I just have so much else going on that I was hoping to avoid the Probate process.

These cards were just in his name so I'm not responsible. But the more I think about it, the creditors for the cards in his name are never going to stop trying until a court tells them "nothing to collect here...go away". So I guess doing the Estate/Probate process has its advantages.

Plus I'm assuming since Estate Information Services, LLC specializes in death collection, they know the ins and outs and could make my life miserable.

One interesting thing: Looking at my notes, Radio Shack & Sears were the only 2 that did not request Death Certificates so CITI must contract out their whole Probate department.

In your first post you state "Thing is, I wasn't planning on opening an Estate or going through Probate. There just isn't anything worth a damn, lol. He had no will and Maryland says everything goes to me anyway because everything else of value...house, car, bank account...is joint." There are assets but they are in joint names. You will have lots to handle as to closing things out and paperwork regarding those assets...you definately need that attorney as the creditors will be interested. Best of luck to you...

[GoingDown]

I've been through this probate collection stuff with a dead relative of mine. His estate was hopelessly insolvent. He had hundreds of thousands of dollars in debts and almost no assets.

The worst thing you can do is talk to these creditors and debt collectors. They will try to use any information they can against you.

I found that sending them a simple letter saying that the debtor was dead and that the estate was insolvent and telling them to cease and desist from any communication with me or the rest of the family got most of them to stop calling us almost immediately. All except Wells Fargo. But now almost 2 years after the relative's death, even Wells Fargo stopped calling.

And although some of them made threats of filing lawsuits and opening probate themselves, none of them followed through on their threats.

They don't want to open probate on an insolvent estate because it will end up costing them more money than it is worth.

If you just hang in there long enough, you can out wait the creditors and not have to bother opening probate.

This is information the creditors don't want you to know.

[Bell30656]

My father lived in Maryland and passed several years ago. While there were assets in the estate, they passed to my mother. She did not ever probate his will. From what the attorneys told us, my father's will has to be probated before my mother's when she passes. However, she doesn't have to probate his will until then. Strange laws.

Most of the creditors were paid but a few we didn't know about popped out of the woodwork after three or four years. Since Maryland's statute of limitations is only three years, I told them to see my new accountant... xxxxxxx. They could go to xxxxx for the money.

My name is the same as my father's. No Junior, no II, exactly the same. A few enterprising collectors found my information and started contacting me. Being the real jerk that I am I gave Wells Fargo the address that they could serve my father at... It's in Arlington, Virginia... pretty easy to locate.

I loved the fact that the cell phone, internet and satellite television providers actually charged a termination fee which they turned over to collections. One has threatened to sue me under Georgia laws since the statute is longer. I begged them to file.

[Snickers]

Well, I talked to my BK Attorney the other day and he advised me to go ahead and probate the estate. Maryland is pretty widow friendly, lol. Anything joint just goes to me. Those joint assets get reported to the state for purpose of inheritance tax but as the spouse I'm exempt from the taxes.

He said that it would end up costing me money to have him fill out the forms that I could easily do myself (they have a streamlined process for small estates). I made an appointment with the local Registrar of Wills and the only thing they asked me to bring was the DC, receipt for funeral expenses and a internet printout of the KBB value of the vehicle. Since the funeral expenses (first preferred creditor) far outweigh the vehicle value, the estate is insolvent from the get-go.

I'm thinking this is the way to go, kinda like decadent BK. Any creditors are just going to get a court approved sorry-charlie letter saying he was insolvent.

Bell30656 - yeah, I read somewhere else about the requirement that his estate be probated before mine when I pass. This weighed into the decision to go ahead and do it. My nephew is going to be the executor of my will when I pass and I don't want him to have to mess with that on top of the mess I will leave him, lol.

And by the way, my Husband will be joining your Father. On Dec 14, he will be interned at Arlington.

[Bell30656]

Next time I'm there I'll snap in an extra salute. I posthumously thank your father for his service to our country. It's too bad debt collectors have now decided that dying isn't enough to get you out of a debt without a bunch of hoops to jump through.

How would one go about challenging a claim against an estate? Junk Debt Buyers are notorious for having shoddy records if any at all. At least when a debt is your own you would recall having taken it out. Some photocopied records may or may not be real.

[DeadManCrawling]

Indeed, thank you, all, for service to our country.

It seems criminal that they can pursue after death, and we are going through similar issues with my dad in law. His wife, my mom in law, passed away in July. The sharks are in the water, and we are doing what we have to.

Sad thing is, we shouldn't have to do ANYTHING.

Again, thank you all, for your service or your loved ones.

Best,

-dmc

[GoingDown]

Indeed, thank you, all, for service to our country.

It seems criminal that they can pursue after death, and we are going through similar issues with my dad in law. His wife, my mom in law, passed away in July. The sharks are in the water, and we are doing what we have to.

Sad thing is, we shouldn't have to do ANYTHING.

Again, thank you all, for your service or your loved ones.

Best,

-dmc

And the truth of the matter is that you don't have to do anything. Most people will never accept this fact, but it is true.

After my relative died, we got a lot of advice from many well-meaning people that we had to open probate and we had to do this or we had to do that. But we didn't do anything. The creditors called and threatened to do all sorts of things to us and the estate, but here's the thing. After two years, none of them did anything at all. And now they have stopped calling us completely. It's over. And the few assets that were in the estate and still in the estate and still in limbo and being used by relatives (such as cars, etc.) for free.

The creditors want you to think that you have to do something or else they will. But in reality they have no intention of doing anything. It would cost them more money than it is worth to do anything.

The assets in the estate can remain in limbo (and be used) forever, without going through probate or anything.

[Bell30656]

It is important to note that each state's laws are different. In some states the will MUST be probated, it some states it is optional if the spouse is alive. If the estate has assets, it is a good idea to visit with an attorney. My father's estate had a suit filed against it within 90 days of his death. I'm not sure but I think the attorney for the estate settled the debt out of court.