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Trustee has requested a 2004 Exam

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  • Trustee has requested a 2004 Exam

    I had a very difficult 341 meeting within the past week Jan 2018. I was represented by an attorney. However, I definitely felt unprepared by his office/paralegal leading up to my 341 hearing. There were definitely some things on my schedules that I did not understand or agree with because I feel as though I was rushed through them a few weeks. This was of obvious concern to the trustee because I could not some of his questions or agreed to what was on the schedules and the trustee said at my 341 there would be more questioning. The trustee has since requested a 2004 exam with LN which makes me some what nervous because I have no idea what to anticipate. I have yet to hear back from my attorney and am aware of all the documents via Pacer. Is is possible to avoid a 2004 exam by providing all requested documents prior to the hearing? How long they typically last? My schedules were emailed to my attorneys assistant after my 341 hearing. There are definitely some amendments I need to make. Any input is greatly appreciated, I'm just very anxious to get this over and done with.

  • #2
    sundevils77

    Welcome to bkforum.

    I assume your reference to "LN" is a reference to the law firm hired by your Trustee. If my assumption is correct, the good news is that the law firm of L & N is very easy to deal with. Based upon your comments above, your Trustee wants clarification as to what is in your Schedules. He/she simply wants to review the documents requested to make sure there are no assets to recover. Once the Trustee's attny has the documents he may not even want to meet with you or, if he does, the meeting may be a simple phone call. If it is at his office there won't even be a court reporter. The meeting will be taped.

    If your schedules are not up to snuff you do want to amend them. There is nothing wrong with amending. It is done all the time. Go through your copy of the schedules and make notes for the amendments. Then sit down with your attny and go over each change. Your attny will draft the amendments. You will want to review and sign off on them before they are filed. Just remember, honest mistakes can be corrected. Your trustee is not "out to get you". He/she is out to get assets for the benefit of creditors - if there are any.

    As to sending me a pm I believe you have to reach a certain number of posts before you can send or receive private messages. Once you are able to do so, please fee free to contact me as you wish.

    Des.

    Comment


    • #3
      Des,

      I greatly appreciate you getting back to me! That definitely eases my mind. I've been fairly stressed out my being unclear on my schedules and will make the changes as well as potential changes to 17 taxes.The majority of my debt is from failed business that are from a handful of years ago. I'll update you shortly on additional questions I may have.

      Comment


      • #4
        Des,

        How does the lettering of the exam make a difference when I receive a notification for my 2004 exam? Specifically on the example below? I think may be reading to many forums. Appreciate the assistance.

        F.R.B.P. 2004(e)

        Comment


        • #5
          Example:
          TRUSTEE’S MOTION FOR ORAL EXAMINATION PURSUANT TO FEDERAL RULE OF BANKRUPTCY PROCEDURE 2004.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sundevils77 View Post
            How does the lettering of the exam make a difference when I receive a notification for my 2004 exam? Specifically on the example below?F.R.B.P. 2004(e)
            It doesn't. Here is what (e) states:

            (e) Mileage. An entity other than a debtor shall not be required to attend as a witness unless lawful mileage and witness fee for one day's attendance shall be first tendered. If the debtor resides more than 100 miles from the place of examination when required to appear for an examination under this rule, the mileage allowed by law to a witness shall be tendered for any distance more than 100 miles from the debtor's residence at the date of the filing of the first petition commencing a case under the Code or the residence at the time the debtor is required to appear for the examination, whichever is the lesser.
            The Rule 2004 request is a boilerplate pleading. In general, the only things that change are the debtor's name, case number and who the Application is directed to. Certain provisions of the Rule are included as the Application can be directed at many different people or entities - not just the debtor.

            Des.

            Comment


            • #7
              Got it, thank you!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sundevils77 View Post
                I had a very difficult 341 meeting within the past week Jan 2018. I was represented by an attorney. However, I definitely felt unprepared by his office/paralegal leading up to my 341 hearing. There were definitely some things on my schedules that I did not understand or agree with because I feel as though I was rushed through them a few weeks. This was of obvious concern to the trustee because I could not some of his questions or agreed to what was on the schedules and the trustee said at my 341 there would be more questioning. The trustee has since requested a 2004 exam with LN which makes me some what nervous because I have no idea what to anticipate. I have yet to hear back from my attorney and am aware of all the documents via Pacer. Is is possible to avoid a 2004 exam by providing all requested documents prior to the hearing? How long they typically last? My schedules were emailed to my attorneys assistant after my 341 hearing. There are definitely some amendments I need to make. Any input is greatly appreciated, I'm just very anxious to get this over and done with.
                Hi there, I just saw your post. My 341 meeting back in February 2018 did not go well and me/my attorney expected some raised eyebrows. I had a LARGE amount of credit card debt and had been trying to keep my head above the water for 15 months prior to filing by selling off purses, coats etc. to websites and then using the money to pay bills. Long story short, I coudnt keep up and had to file BK January 2018.

                The first biggest mistake i made was not being very detailed on my paperwork about the stuff I still had. I didnt have much, but I had a few things in regards to clothing items I didn't list. At the 341, the US trustee attorney was there and she had it out for me. After the 341, my attorney told me I had to do a 2004. I received the papers in the mail with a RIDER, asking for the last 2 years of every credit card statement I had, I had lots of cards, lots. I had started getting statements before this started and while I had online access to bank stuff as my attorney said it might happen. but the amount of paperwork they wanted was MASSIVE. I went to every extent to get them what they wanted, some banks just wouldnt give it to me though. The day of the 2004, i was so nervous and it went horrible. Basically US attorney just wanted to catch me in any kind of lie or small omission of something i left out. It was horrible, but it was my fault by not being 100% honest.

                If you have been 100% honest with everything, this will be easy and you have nothing to worry about. It will last a few hours depending on the case. At the end of mine, the us attorney and my attorney spoke in private and after that, my attorney told me I could convert to a ch.13 but it was literally going to take every dime of my money to do this. But I had no other choices. I started my repayment plan in August 2018 and i literally am scrapping by everyday to just survive and some nights i just want to cry my eyes out. and then I think, if you were just honest this probalby wouldnt have happened.

                A lot of my faults had to do with my quick reactions and quick ways i jumped into everything. Take the process slow and seriously and know all your documents before going into the 2004 and you will be fine.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by boston1214 View Post

                  Hi there, I just saw your post. My 341 meeting back in February 2018 did not go well and me/my attorney expected some raised eyebrows. I had a LARGE amount of credit card debt and had been trying to keep my head above the water for 15 months prior to filing by selling off purses, coats etc. to websites and then using the money to pay bills. Long story short, I coudnt keep up and had to file BK January 2018.

                  The first biggest mistake i made was not being very detailed on my paperwork about the stuff I still had. I didnt have much, but I had a few things in regards to clothing items I didn't list. At the 341, the US trustee attorney was there and she had it out for me. After the 341, my attorney told me I had to do a 2004. I received the papers in the mail with a RIDER, asking for the last 2 years of every credit card statement I had, I had lots of cards, lots. I had started getting statements before this started and while I had online access to bank stuff as my attorney said it might happen. but the amount of paperwork they wanted was MASSIVE. I went to every extent to get them what they wanted, some banks just wouldnt give it to me though. The day of the 2004, i was so nervous and it went horrible. Basically US attorney just wanted to catch me in any kind of lie or small omission of something i left out. It was horrible, but it was my fault by not being 100% honest.

                  If you have been 100% honest with everything, this will be easy and you have nothing to worry about. It will last a few hours depending on the case. At the end of mine, the us attorney and my attorney spoke in private and after that, my attorney told me I could convert to a ch.13 but it was literally going to take every dime of my money to do this. But I had no other choices. I started my repayment plan in August 2018 and i literally am scrapping by everyday to just survive and some nights i just want to cry my eyes out. and then I think, if you were just honest this probalby wouldnt have happened.

                  A lot of my faults had to do with my quick reactions and quick ways i jumped into everything. Take the process slow and seriously and know all your documents before going into the 2004 and you will be fine.




                  Hello Boston,

                  I have a question: Why would they assume you had some clothing if you didn't list it? What would cause the trustee to make you go through all of the questioning in a 2004?

                  I just want to make sure whatever it is, I don't make the same mistake. I didn't know clothing had to be parsed out on the questionairre?

                  Thank you!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Beaverhousen View Post





                    Hello Boston,

                    I have a question: Why would they assume you had some clothing if you didn't list it? What would cause the trustee to make you go through all of the questioning in a 2004?

                    I just want to make sure whatever it is, I don't make the same mistake. I didn't know clothing had to be parsed out on the questionairre?

                    Thank you!

                    The debt level i had caused major red flags. they did not believe that I could possibly not have much left after accumulating the amount of debt I had. When i was filing out all the paerwork I was on a emotional rollercoaster and like drowning. I just did everything quickly. Largely my 2004 came from the debt level and the fact that I sold lots of merchandise before filing throughout the year even though I provided a detailed listing of every cent sold and how it went directly to the credit card payments, that was provided in the 2004 exam and it cost me over a $1000 dollars to have my attorney and her accountant go through all the sales and to show the woman that I sold and paid.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Beaverhousen View Post
                      I have a question: Why would they assume you had some clothing if you didn't list it? What would cause the trustee to make you go through all of the questioning in a 2004?
                      I'm not answering for Boston, but the issue appears that the U.S. Trustee (UST) was "interested" in the case.

                      As already stated, you need to be 100% honest in bankruptcy. Leaving things unscheduled is never a good idea, despite any good intentions. You can easily be trapped in a perjury claim by stating that your schedules are 100% accurate, and later trying to recant and withdraw the accuracy statement. (341 Meetings are under oath and forms are signed under penalty of perjury.)

                      Not everyone gets dragged into a 2004 Examination and I'd venture to guess that it happens in less than 1% of the cases. The 2004 Examination is used for obtaining more information, in a deposition-like environment, to get to details. The 341 meeting is not the place to depose a debtor, and should be kept short. If additional documentation is insufficient, the UST or the (Panel/Standing) Trustee can order a 2004 Exam to grill you under oath. Again, this doesn't happen that often.

                      A creditor can also request such an Exam if they are trying to build a case against you for fraud.
                      Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                      Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                      Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                      I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by boston1214 View Post


                        The debt level i had caused major red flags. they did not believe that I could possibly not have much left after accumulating the amount of debt I had. When i was filing out all the paerwork I was on a emotional rollercoaster and like drowning. I just did everything quickly. Largely my 2004 came from the debt level and the fact that I sold lots of merchandise before filing throughout the year even though I provided a detailed listing of every cent sold and how it went directly to the credit card payments, that was provided in the 2004 exam and it cost me over a $1000 dollars to have my attorney and her accountant go through all the sales and to show the woman that I sold and paid.
                        Thank you for your answer Boston. I just looked up the exemption for clothing and furniture. It says $12,250. I have a few Prada bags and a few Hermes scarves, so I was about to start making a detailed list, but the value of my entire closet is nowhere near even half of the exemption. What am I missing? If you sold $1,600 worth of clothing/bags why did this present a problem?

                        I am not trying to be nosy. I am just trying to figure out if I am misunderstanding something here, and I don't want to make any mistakes or omissions.

                        Thank you! I appreciate how difficult this whole thing is. I too have considered just checking out. I am glad you are sharing your story. It does help!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          My schedules we're 100 % honest. My dilemma started because I didn't understand Priority debt. And it was definitely an error by my Attorney and his staff. Long story short I wouldn't have committed to paying certain things after the bk was complete because it shouldn't have been in there in the first place etc. All good insight though! It's much appreciated!

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