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A shocking surprise.

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    A shocking surprise.

    I apologize for the length of this post. I'm new to this internet forums but I recently came across this forum after going through a divorce around 18 months ago.

    I am a paralegal for a general practice law firm. Unfortunately, we don't handle bankruptcies, probate or real estate law.

    I guess if we did, I would have known what was coming.

    Anyway, here's my story and I seek your advice. Thank you all in advance for being a listening ear or ....a reading eye rather:

    I've probably had the worst weekend I've ever had in my life about two months ago.

    Once upon a time I was married (in reality not all that long ago) and we signed a consent order and the Court entered our consent order requiring him to pay all of our debts.

    Actually, this is how it worked. My ex and I sat in a room while our attorneys and one mediator tried to negotiate the division of marital property (assets and debts).

    My husband had a 401K, we had a money market account, a mutual funds account, a checking account, a savings account and all of these assets totalled around $32K if I recall correctly.

    At the same time we had car debt from a vehicle he leased and turned in (we ended up being upside down on it by about $13,000), credit car debt, a loan we took out after our son was born to redecorate and expand his room, and college debt.

    All of those debts totalled around 40K+ if I recall correctly.

    At this point we had been married for 6 years and we did marry very young. I was only 19.

    My husband said he wanted the money market account, he wanted me to waive rights to his 401K, he wanted the mutual funds and I could have the checking and savings account which only totalled maybe 7K or so.

    Anyway, I obviously said NO WAY and told the mediator to go back into the little room he was sitting in and tell him I'll see him in Court.

    Well the mediator came back with a surprise. She tells me my husband still wants all these assets but in exchange he will also take all debt.

    Remember that we got married when I was 18 so all of our credit is totally entangled with one another. I don't think there is a loan or credit card that we didn't have joint liability on.

    Anyway, I thought to myself...if the court splits things 50/50 then I'd have $16,000 worth of assets but I'd also have 20K worth of debt. That means my networth would still be -$4000.00.

    My husband offering to take on ALL the debt and leave me with 7K worth of assets (savings and checking account) sounded like a good deal because I was young and I had a good job and I just KNEW that I could build my small fortune back up with no problem.

    So I accepted the offer, we signed the order, the Courts entered an Order and we proceeded with the divorce.

    After the fact I was TOO happy to call the creditors and tell them please send all future correspondence to the ex and provided them with his address.

    Thank God right?!!!

    WRONG!

    Recently, I found out that my ex has filed for bankruptcy. You know what that means? It means that the creditors can no longer contact him in regards to paying the debts. Creditors are not happy people when it comes to writing things off so guess what? That's right! They are coming after me for ALL the debt that my ex said he'd take on. Only now I have no assets to pay them off with. I handed over all those assets which he has since liquidated thinking he would pay ALL debt.

    I am so upset right now that I don't really know what to do with myself! But, my purpose in writing this is not to get pity from you. My purpose is to let you know to watch yourself, watch joint liability accounts, watch entangling your credit rating and score with your significant other because it can come back to bite you in your behind. I work for a family law firm and it NEVER occurred he'd do that to me. I was quite the fool!

    After speaking with an attorney (whom I work for), I was instructed that bankrupty law which is in the same category as federal law supercedes any domestic or state court orders. Apparently, this means I cannot even get a court order requiring him to pay those debts because bankruptcy/federal law says he's no longer responsible.

    For more information about how to protect yourself, please visit this site from the Federal Trade Commission. It's very important.

    We’re sorry, we can’t find the page you're looking for.


    Take care and be blessed.
    Last edited by invisible; 10-11-2006, 11:21 AM. Reason: font size was to large

    #2
    Thanks for your posting....... and yes federal laws do override state laws..... and many are not aware of that.....

    Divorce laws are often overridden by bankrutpcy laws concerning debts.....

    Sometimes you get a rotten deal out of it, and sounds like that's what you got...... your divorce attorney should have warned you..... course you weren't aware your ex would file bankruptcy......

    Hope you can get his resolved without picking up the tab for all of it...... but doesn't sound good.....

    Keep us posted on your case........

    Thanks for the link for the info that others can use.....
    Minny

    "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

    My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

    Comment


      #3
      Well crap! Aint that a pisser. Welcome Invisible. I am sorry you have to go through this. I don't even know what to say.... Maybe they will dismiss his BK in court on the thought that he never meant to pay these bills that he "wanted". Geesh. Good luck on all of this
      Filed: 08/09/06
      341: 09/18/06
      Discharged: 11/22/06
      Closed 11/30/06

      Comment


        #4
        Question? How long have you been divorced and when did he file bankrutpcy???

        I'm sure he was aware that his 401K was untouchable by the bankruptcy court..... but I don't know about the mutual funds.....

        If he filed bankruptcy right after the divorce, he is commiting fraud, because he KNEW he wasn't going to pay those debts he assumed in the divorce.......

        Tell us the time frame..........
        Minny

        "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

        My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Minnymouth View Post
          Question? How long have you been divorced and when did he file bankrutpcy???

          I'm sure he was aware that his 401K was untouchable by the bankruptcy court..... but I don't know about the mutual funds.....

          If he filed bankruptcy right after the divorce, he is commiting fraud, because he KNEW he wasn't going to pay those debts he assumed in the divorce.......

          Tell us the time frame..........

          The whole picture is this. I am originally from California. He is from "the South" My ex wanted to move to the east coast (southern region) where the cost of living was less. I didn't know a soul here but he wanted this move so I agreed because we were married and I trust his judgment.

          He couldn't find a job after moving here and so I took care of everything for 8 months. He was always the one to pay the bills and I was not very bright in that aspect. I just expected that when he sat down twice a month with our check book things were being taken care of. Anyway, 8 months into our move my ex was still not working so he took a job overseas and was making 70K a year or so.

          He's been over there since early 2004. By late 2004 we were in the divorce phase for numerous reasons. By early 2005 we had settled the equitable distribution/child custody/ child support part of the case and so only the divorce itself was left. I guess March 2005 is when our "Order" was entered. In this state you have to be separated a year to file for a divorce (I used the date he went over there originally even though we were not "emotionally separated" to speed things along. I was told physical separation was the requirement) but everything else can be handled prior to that. Anyway, early this year (2006)...let's say...January he tells me that he is quitting his job.

          This is the chat conversation:

          me (1/12/2006 11:15:16 AM): umm
          me (1/12/2006 11:15:20 AM): text me back and confirm
          me (1/12/2006 11:15:24 AM): so i know you are online
          me (1/12/2006 11:15:25 AM): shees
          him (1/12/2006 11:16:10 AM): ok
          him (1/12/2006 11:16:17 AM): we tracking now?
          me (1/12/2006 11:16:19 AM): yeah
          me (1/12/2006 11:16:23 AM): but i wasn't going to sign in
          me (1/12/2006 11:16:30 AM): i was waiting for a text back
          me (1/12/2006 11:16:48 AM): what's up?
          him (1/12/2006 11:16:54 AM): issues
          me (1/12/2006 11:17:00 AM): like?
          him (1/12/2006 11:17:06 AM): talked to my indian coworker today on the phone...
          him (1/12/2006 11:17:28 AM): he said that after i left the office wednesday, the supv had a talk with him and said...
          him (1/12/2006 11:17:37 AM): she doesn't want him anymore
          me (1/12/2006 11:17:44 AM): wnat who?
          him (1/12/2006 11:17:54 AM): basically, she's gonna try to make it to where he can't get offered another contract
          me (1/12/2006 11:18:04 AM): and that has what to do with you?
          him (1/12/2006 11:18:09 AM): so it's not just me they're screwing with
          him (1/12/2006 11:18:32 AM): we both do a hell of a lot of work... i do two people's jobs, and so does he
          me (1/12/2006 11:18:43 AM): so you work directly with one another
          him (1/12/2006 11:18:44 AM): i really need to get out of there
          him (1/12/2006 11:18:47 AM): I TOLD YOU...
          me (1/12/2006 11:18:49 AM): argh
          me (1/12/2006 11:18:55 AM): i told you that you can leave all you want
          him (1/12/2006 11:18:56 AM): i need to leave on my terms, and not theirs...
          me (1/12/2006 11:19:00 AM): but don't bounce without something solid
          him (1/12/2006 11:19:10 AM): there's some underhanded, back-stabbing stuff going on
          me (1/12/2006 11:19:11 AM): jobs don't just fall into your lap
          him (1/12/2006 11:19:26 AM): read my words...
          me (1/12/2006 11:19:30 AM): I am reading your words
          me (1/12/2006 11:19:33 AM): KIDS KIDS KIDS
          him (1/12/2006 11:19:35 AM): that dude is a good employee
          me (1/12/2006 11:19:36 AM): read my words
          him (1/12/2006 11:19:41 AM): and... UGH
          me (1/12/2006 11:19:43 AM): i don't care what happens to him to be totally honest
          him (1/12/2006 11:19:44 AM): let me finish
          me (1/12/2006 11:19:50 AM): i'm sorry that happened
          him (1/12/2006 11:19:53 AM): damn
          me (1/12/2006 11:19:54 AM): but i care a lot more about *****
          me (1/12/2006 11:19:58 AM): and his dental insurance
          me (1/12/2006 11:20:03 AM): and his daycare being covered
          him (1/12/2006 11:20:05 AM): you act like i don't think about my kids
          me (1/12/2006 11:20:12 AM): well it sounds to me like you are wnating to leave
          him (1/12/2006 11:20:14 AM): those are the two reasons i'm still out here
          me (1/12/2006 11:20:15 AM): without finding another job
          me (1/12/2006 11:20:17 AM): and that is not cool
          him (1/12/2006 11:20:19 AM): ok
          him (1/12/2006 11:20:21 AM): forget it
          him (1/12/2006 11:20:26 AM): you TOTALLY missed it
          me (1/12/2006 11:20:27 AM): i empathize with you
          me (1/12/2006 11:20:30 AM): and I think you should leave
          him (1/12/2006 11:20:32 AM): didn't even let me get...
          me (1/12/2006 11:20:33 AM): but not before you find another job
          him (1/12/2006 11:20:33 AM): damn
          him (1/12/2006 11:20:37 AM): another time
          him (1/12/2006 11:20:40 AM): later
          me (1/12/2006 11:20:41 AM): finish
          me (1/12/2006 11:20:46 AM): i dont' want to go through this again
          Anyway, by the end of the month he claims to be fired. Said they wouldn't renew his contract. He tells me that he wants to try to work things out with me that leaving was a mistake and CLAIMS that being fired is for the best so he can come back and find a job closer to his family (us). I told him that i didn't want to work things out that but he came back to the city we live in anyway.

          So much for that.

          I didn't find out until VERY recently that he came back (I believe) for the SOLE purpose of filing for bankruptcy and that puts HUGE questions in my head about whether or not he was really fired but his employer maintains that he was let go for budget reasons. I don't believe that for one minute.

          He was here from February - July claiming to visit with his son (whom was in daycare every day he was here even though he wasn't working) and left on July 5 to go back overseas. He claims he left because he has finally realized we will never be together and he wants to make money to take care of us so back over there he goes. I haven't heard from him since but as far as I know he was last in Bahrain and Amsterdam. I've been tracing the IP addresses on his emails.

          The only reason I found out about the BK is because i was mortgage searching and the lender informed me a default was on my credit report. When I called the creditor I gave the usual "he is supposed to be paying the debt spiel" and they inform me that they cannot contact him because there is a bankruptcy order/judgment or whatever you call it on file.

          So, now they are expecting me to pay. Not only did he file bankruptcy but MOST of these debts went into default WELL before he filed.

          So to make a long story short timeline is as follows:

          Entry of Consent Order for payment of debts among other things was - March-ish, 2005. Filing for Bankruptcy was February, 2006 and I think his debts were discharged just recently.

          I promise I'm not always this long-winded. I'm so sorry. I just saw how long this post is.
          Last edited by invisible; 10-11-2006, 11:49 AM.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by miss puff View Post
            Well crap! Aint that a pisser. Welcome Invisible. I am sorry you have to go through this. I don't even know what to say.... Maybe they will dismiss his BK in court on the thought that he never meant to pay these bills that he "wanted". Geesh. Good luck on all of this
            Thank you for the well wishes. I'm trying to get there now that I've come out of the coma I was in when I found all this out. I'm trying to take action now. It's been suggested to me that I just go ahead and file for bankruptcy since my credit score is going to do what the stock market did in the 30's. I know that before long these things are going to start popping up on my report. Right now my credit sore is around 660 according to that mortgage lender I talked to on the phone.

            Comment


              #7
              Yes, bankruptcy for you might be the route to take under the circumstances........

              Find you 3 bankruptcy attorneys, discuss the issues, find out what options are open to you..... usually their consultations are free.....

              Let us know what you find out......

              We'll help all we can......
              Minny

              "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

              My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

              Comment


                #8
                Well I think I am blessed because I have a "friend" uptown who works with bankruptcy attorneys although he practices in other areas. Do you think it's better to file after the new year...after I get my income taxes back and all that or before? I guess I should just ask them. But, curious about your non legal advice opinion.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by invisible View Post
                  Well I think I am blessed because I have a "friend" uptown who works with bankruptcy attorneys although he practices in other areas. Do you think it's better to file after the new year...after I get my income taxes back and all that or before? I guess I should just ask them. But, curious about your non legal advice opinion.
                  Go find out what your options are now, Invisible. And ask 2-3 other bankruptcy lawyers what they think too - most give a free half-hour to hour consultation to ask whatever questions you want and discuss the possibilities. Divorce and bankruptcy don't make good partners, as you have already discovered. So sorry that you have been so damaged by just trying to do the right thing. Come back any time - really glad you found us! We are here for support and venting whenever you need it.
                  I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

                  06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
                  06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
                  07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
                  10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
                  01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
                  09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
                  06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
                  08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

                  10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
                  Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Trying to hide your income tax refund won't work....... the trustee will ask for it anyways........ You would have to wait to file till after you get it back and spend it, then he will ask for next years probably......

                    See attorneys, check out your options, and relieve yourself of all these extra problems that you DON'T NEED.......

                    When you talk to your EX - tell him "thanks a lot for the debts"!!!!!!! He knew what he was doing....... he kept his 401K, etc and bk'd the debts......
                    Smart move on his part......financially. Shame your divorce attorney didn't warn you he could do this.....

                    Keep us posted.
                    Minny

                    "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

                    My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

                    Comment

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