"Reasonable" Expenses

[howdidithappen]

Are there any guidelines on what's considered a reasonable expense? I have two teenage boys that eat like there is no tomorrow as well as a daughter. I live in NJ one of the most expensive sates to live in - my car insurance is extremely high, for no reason other than I live here - no accidents, no points on license, etc. Any advice greatly appreciated.

[whatamess]

Hello fellow Jersian!

I'm a Joisey girl , south to be exact. Welcome to the forum.
If you look under the exemptions, there is a link that you can put in your zip code and it will tell you what is allowable. Ive heard the lawyers like to put a few dollars under. We have retained an attorney and will file soon. I will let you know exactly what they allowed then. I have two daughters, my husband and I plus my mother to feed. My groceries run about $500 a month and the lawyer didnt seem to think that was an issue. Im waiting to find out if he will allow pet expenses as we have a bunch of them too.
The median income for a family of four here was around $98,000, and the mortgage/rent allowances were pretty decent. I will see if I can find the exact link for you.
WAM

[whatamess]

Link...

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20070201/meanstesting.htm

You just type in your state, zip, how many folks live w/you etc...
best wishes and good luck!
WAM

[SinkingFast]

If your boys are driving age, your rates could be high because of teens on your policy. Our insurance is more than double what we used to pay when it was just Hubby and I. If/When you file, your attny should list your actual expense on Schedule J. It's what you really get billed for.

Here's a link to the Schedules Allowable National Standards:

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/2..._standards.htm

We have 3 teens and special diets for us older folks to deal with. My Mom lives with us. She's in Chronic Renal Failure. Must watch sodium, potassium, and phosphorus. Mom and I have to watch our fats. I have HBP so I have to watch sodium too.

We spend about $1K-$1100/mo on food. I saved receipts for months to know that. When we filed, our attny listed our food at $825 or $850/mo. Basically the allowable for a family of 4.

One attny we Consulted with was gonna list us at $600/mo. Another said he'd claim $700/mo. We're below the Median and both of those attnys were trying to push us into a Ch 13.

The point,........... What is gonna be listed on Schedule J is not necessarily what you spend. Some things like rent/mortgage, utilities, auto insurance, and such will be. You have hard, firm monthly bills for those expenses. Food, clothes, recreation/entertainment,........... Will probably be numbers the attny thinks the Court is used to seeing. What the attny knows he/she can get thru.

[loonzilla]

Like Sinking Fast said, receipts are your friend. I have over $700/month medical expenses from prescriptions, co-pays, etc. This is way higher than what trustee is used to, but I had 6 months worth of receipts showing that average in case it is questioned. Lawyer saw receipts, asked about my wife's medical condition and if expenses will continue, then said we would have no issues. Two ways to go about expenses...list what the courts are used to so they won't be questioned OR provide your actual number with documented receipts in hand. My lawyer said if you can get by with numbers that they are used to seeing, the process will be smooth. When you submit numbers they aren't accustomed to, it brings more scrutiny to your case and you'll need documentation. Compile the numbers and see where you stand...the numbers the trustee is used to seeing may get you by (with respect to filing chapter 7). Good luck!!!

[howdidithappen]

What happens if your expenses are higher

for instance your mortgage payment? If your income is higher than the figure indicated? I have enormous health expenses - over $2,000 per month just for myself and two children with special needs. Where can I get a listing of the categories that are used?

[loonzilla]

Are you talking about medium income for your state? If you over the medium, you'll have to pass the means test. The means test has slots for house payment and medical expenses. No special category...they are specifically stated. Once you pass the means test, it off to schedules I and J, where you list your income and actual expenses. If you don't pass means test, more than likely you'll have to file chapter 13.

The schedules will determine your disposable income and see if chapter 7 is still an option. There is also a slot for medical expenses on that schedule as well. 2K for medical is a lot and it will probably assist you passing means test and provide you with a validated expense on the J schedule (if you have documentation). My guess is your income is higher than the medium?

Also, search for Best Case bankruptcy software online. You can download excellent software for free...it only costs money if you use it to file. You can understand your situation 100% better after filling out the means test and schedule I & J.

[howdidithappen]

I sure have ALOT to learn in a very short time!

Is there anyway to stall the creditors? I need to understand the difference between a Chapter 7 and a Chapter 13 - I'll take a look at the website you mentioned. Received a Summons yesterday from Chase....

[SinkingFast]

I was gonna ask how long you've not been paying your Creditors, but your last post says you've received a Summons.

You can stall that. File a written response to the Summons. You should have something like 20 days or so to respond. A written response will buy you some time. Maybe as much as 2-3 more months. If you find an attny you're comfortable with fairly quickly, maybe he/she can take care of the response for you.

Here's a link for you to read about Bankruptcy Basics:

http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcyco...tcybasics.html

Individuals can file Ch 7 or Ch 13. So you don't need to read about Family Farmers, or Municipalities, or etc.

[howdidithappen]

What does the letter say?

Thanks for your help.!

[DivorceRuinedMe]

Received a Summons yesterday from Chase....

Can I ask how long you went without paying Chase before they summoned you? I ask b/c they are my biggest PITA right now. I owe them a ton though so I understand why. I'm just curious how long it took them to sue you.

[howdidithappen]

3 months!

Any suggestion what I put in the letter as I try to find an attorney? Thanks!

[SinkingFast]

I found some information for you at a Free Legal Info Forum:

Reply to the original poster
Along with the summons, you should also have gotten a copy of a document called a complaint, and you may have received some other papers as well. The complaint sets forth the facts of the creditor's case and requests legal relief. The name of the "response" you have 20 days to make depends on Rhode Island practice. In Massachusetts, the choice would be between an "answer" to the complaint or a motion to dismiss for any of several reasons.

I earnestly recommend that you take these papers to a litigation attorney. You may have claims under state or federal debt collection laws that would offset the creditor's claim to some extent and that would provide a hook for attorney's fees. Such claims would ordinarily be asserted as counterclaims in your answer. Even if you don't have a fair debt collection claim, you're unlikely to get a good result without an attorney unless you're the victim of identity theft and can easily prove it. Many attorneys will give you an initial consultation for little or no cost, following which you can decide whether you'll save money in the long run by hiring them.

http://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=180272

At another site, I saw where different States have different Rules. Some have a Certain Form you're supposed to file. Maybe call the Court House and ask. Generally the Clerks at the Court House can be very helpful.

But, as noted in the post above,............ You'll probably be much more successful if an attny files the Response for you.

[DivorceRuinedMe]

Oh dear - that is NOT what I wanted to hear tonight. Do you care to share how much you owe them? If not, could you private message me? I'm just trying to see how you compare to me.

[fedupw/ccdebt]

That's not what I want to hear either...stopped paying Chase on a cc account, last payment was the end of March and have gotten a "nice" letter from them saying please pay the amount due to keep my excellent credit in place. Don;t know how they expect me to honestly pay when they are charging almost $900 in finance charges a month...unreal!

I have got to get moving on all this but I am literally scared out of my mind. I know that when things get going, I will have to go to a court hearing but I work with the court system where I live in Indiana...and it could cause me some real problems.