Two attorneys say I'm ch. 13, third says he can get us a Ch. 7. Which is it??!

[veloguy]

The first two attorneys I spoke with last week said, "No way, you're definitely a Ch. 13". First two attys. didn't look at the means test, just looked at my gross income. While the attorney today actually took the time to plug in my gross income (which comes out to about $200/month over the median income for my state) and then plug in the IRS deductions for expenses into the actual Ch. 7 means test.

Line 50, Monthly Disposable Income comes out at -70, and 60 Month Disposable Income comes out at -4200. He rounded up on my gross income, in addition, my income will go down over the next few months (plan on filing in Dec. or Jan '08) as I make commision and just lost my two largest accts in the last 3 months.

I questioned the attorney several times on whether or not he was sure on Ch.7 and told him two other attys. said definitely a Ch. 13. He offered to refund my retainer if, once I paid him and we sat down and crunched hard #'s, he was wrong and I was a 13.

What's been everyone elses experience? Is this what I've been reading that attys. will push for Ch. 13 b/c it's eaiser and they get paid more? Were the first two attys. bs'ing me and this guy today was right, or is it the other way around?

Now I'm even more confused... I obviously want to file ch.7, but if it's just going to get thrown out, I don't want to screw myself in the process. Any input, insight, opinions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[SinkingFast]

The oldest trick in the BK Attny's handbook is to push a marginal filer into a Ch 13. Collect the higher fee. Knowing full well the Filer cannot make the payments. The Filer comes back in a year or 2 asking to Convert to Ch 7. Poof!! Another attny's fee is collected.

To really know for sure, any attny is gonna have to run a Means Test to it's conclusion.

Sounds like Attny #3 gave you a much more accurate picture of your situation than the first 2.

Another thing that sounds good is Attny #3's offer to refund your money if, at any point, you are dissatisfied with their services. That's a good sign as well.

How were your meetings with all 3 attnys?? Was there one that you were more comfortable with than the others?? Do all of them have a paralegal who will be available to answer phone calls and emails when you have questions?? Will the attnys be available to you as well??

Have you ran the online Means Test Calculator to see how those results compare with what Attny #3 told you??

http://www.legalconsumer.com/means-t...ator/index.php

That might also help with your decision making process.

[veloguy]

Well, he said a refund if he feels he can't get us Ch. 7

[QUOTE=SinkingFast;105297]

Another thing that sounds good is Attny #3's offer to refund your money if, at any point, you are dissatisfied with their services. That's a good sign as well.

QUOTE]

after we crunch the #'s.

First atty. I just met for maybe two minutes and spent the next hour talking to the paralegal who was a little odd, spoke very quietly, and I had trouble following is train of thought/logic w/ regards to my situation. His story was that he worked in his family medical bills collection business for like 20 years before becoming a paralegal for a BK attorney. I found this a little odd, not to mention that anyone who would work as a collector for 20 years has no soul and/or is Satan incarnate. He said he, "doesn't even use the Means Test" as he had his own "spreadsheet that is much more detailed" or some such story.

Second atty. was pretty much a condecending d**k. Said my debt was too high and income to good to get Ch. 7. Again, didn't want to look at a means test. I thought its kind of odd that you could get denied BK b/c you have to much debt?! Thats the whole reason I have to file BK is because I have to much debt. No paralegal that I could tell. Just a mousy receptionist.

Third atty. today was good. A little odd, but good and I liked that he said Ch. 7, but I don't want to be blined by the fact that he's saying Ch.7 and ignore other red flags. Paralegal was extremely helpful and seems knowledgable as I spoke via phone, and then met with him today as well.

That's been my biggest fear w/ Ch. 13 as I'm a sales rep. w/ about 70% of my income coming from commisions on sales. Slow down in economy is hitting my industry and I've watched my commision get smaller and smaller since April (no commision at all last month, and looks like none this month save for some miracle this week). If I come out of Ch. 13 w/ a fixed month payment and my income continues to drop, I'm screwed.

Thanks for the response and sorry for making my BK experience into such a personal narrative on this board. Really appreciate the input. Sounds like it's pretty common for attys. to just push for 13 as I've been reading from other folks here.

[SinkingFast]

If you have more attnys available in your area, and you aren't in any rush to file,.......... Schedule some more Consult appointments. Meet some more attnys.

As you Consult around more, get a feel for the Trustees in your area. Attnys will chat about the Trustees. The attnys we met with sure did.

Check your Court's Home Web Page. See who the Trustees in your area are. Most Trustees are practicing BK attnys. One might take your case. Might give that a try too. Just be careful not to Consult with all the Trustees or you'll taint the pool. Then the BK Court will have to pull a Trustee in from a different Court.

[danaf]

veloguy - all of our stories are personal so do not be sorry about posting for support!

Use the meantest link that Sinkingfast provided and crunch the numbers yourself for confidence. Visit a few more attorneys, do your own research, and ask alot of questions.

If you like the attorney that said he'd offer you a refund if you really do fall into a 13, and go with him - obviously- make sure he puts that into writing.

Another thing that would help - if you feel comfortable, post your stuff here (not exact #'s but general). There are members that do that. You don't have to say what state you are in and you can receive feedback from people that are experienced. The feedback you may receive can help but that is up to your comfort level.

[BurgerKingVII]

Now I'm even more confused... I obviously want to file ch.7, but if it's just going to get thrown out, I don't want to screw myself in the process. Any input, insight, opinions would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

The key issue here may be whether Chapter 13 would be acceptable to you as a "Plan B." Why? If the U.S. Trustee or a creditor disagrees with your calculation of disposable income and believes that you're not eligible for Chapter 7, what typically happens is a motion under Section 707(b) to dismiss your case or have it converted to BK13. At that point, you could respond with, "Okay, convert it." So if you've got a good-faith basis for filing BK7, but will settle for BK13, why not file BK7 and see what happens?

I would think that you could also ask the court to: 1) deny the motion and allow your BK7 to proceed; or, in the alternative, 2) convert the case to BK13 rather than dismiss it. But having not researched the issue, I can't say with 100% certainty that this opposition strategy would be proper.