What a BK Attorney won't tell me

[S2008]

First off, thanks to everyone who contributes to these forum. I've learned a lot.

I haven't set an appointment for my first consultation with a BK attorney yet.
I'm just wondering if an attorney is the best person to get advice from regarding BK.

Is an attorney legally bound not to tell me to do certain things? Is a BK attorney the best source of information as far as what to do in order to maximize the benefit of my BK filing?

I am not desparate yet and I think I have plenty of time (at least 1 year) to plan for a potential BK (ch7 or 13).

[MomIcantFindmy]

All those thoughts crossed my mind too. I also thought that it was in the attorney's best interest to have me file. I was not ready to file when the attorney was and I waited. I found the best information on this board and we did our best by basing decisions on reading books, this forum, and the attorney. We know others in the BK process that have a rougher time than us. Educate yourself and you will be fine. Good Luck!!

[S2008]

Thanks! That's what I thought, too.

[gymbo]

(Disclaimer - I have not seen an atty yet)

But from reading alot - An attorney is bound to advise you not to take on any debt if you are considering filing BK. So if your car is on its last legs and you still have decent credit IT MAY BE in your best interest to get a new car before you file. An attorney cannot tell you that. Or at least they are not supposed to from what I understand.

[S2008]

Exactly my point, gymbo. Although a BK attorney is ultimately the best resource in going through the process, I think the best DO and DONT advice comes from elsewhere.
Eg. Securing a safe/reliable car before starting the BK process, etc.

[Flamingo]

Exactly my point, gymbo. Although a BK attorney is ultimately the best resource in going through the process, I think the best DO and DONT advice comes from elsewhere.
Eg. Securing a safe/reliable car before starting the BK process, etc.

I would never recommend just going by do and don't advice on any BK forum, even this marvelous one unless it is advice that is backed up by law, not experience (i.e., 401(k) Plans are exempt in a filing so don't touch it). An attorney specializing in BK in the state in which one resides is always the best source of information for ones own particular situatoin as all bankruptcies are different. Put the situation in another perspective - you have symptoms and you discuss them in another forum as to what they could be and you get all sorts of opinions as to what the symptoms could be from. Then you make an appointment with your doctor, have tests done and it turns out to be something totally different or maybe one of the persons on the forum nailed in on the head but you have other varying opinions. In plain words, no one knows your exact situation, finances and life but an attorney having all your financial and personal information as to your matter does.

When you retain an attorney, you will get advice that was not given to you at a consultation. Over the time I have been on here, I have seen posters inquire about many things, get varying opinions and good advice, find out something different or similar from their attorney as to their situation because they did not divulge their entire situation on here for privacy or other reasons and go on their way.

[S2008]

Thanks Flamingo. Your point is well taken. Of course, a BK attorney, as I said, is the ultimate best resource for legal advice. I'm just concerned that if the attorney is not able to tell me to go get a decent car (and finance it to reduce my disposable income) before I start my BK process, how many more hot tips am I not getting from him???

[Flamingo]

Thanks Flamingo. Your point is well taken. Of course, a BK attorney, as I said, is the ultimate best resource for legal advice. I'm just concerned that if the attorney is not able to tell me to go get a decent car (and finance it to reduce my disposable income) before I start my BK process, how many more hot tips am I not getting from him???

What you can learn on here is priceless...ask the attorney at the initial consultation if that is something that would work in your situation and that you heard that other attorneys recommend that be done in some cases.

[Phillymanhere]

S2008,

I think you may be underestimating the communication skills of human beings and of lawyers.

A good lawyer knows how to tell you what you need to know. There are a thousand ways to tell you to do such and such. In fact, that is part of the fun, it seems, of being a good lawyer--communicating tricky stuff. "The courts have in the past ruled against people doing X, but if you do X, the courts around here have tended to allow it as long as you do Y." Or one might say, "I wouldn't recommend that but ..."

The deal is to tell your lawyer exactly what you are thinking. They can communicate all that needs to be communicated. And they can better tell you how to accomplish (if it's possible) what you want to accomplish within the confines of the law and within the confines of proper legal counsel. And good lawyers have heard it all, seen it all, and they know that clients often are trying to skirt the law by doing X or planning Y. Talking about that is all part of good lawyering.

[Frogge]

I was very concerned that once I consulted with a BK attorney, that would flag a date that I knew I was in trouble, and anything I did after that meeting would be scrutinized by a trustee. I think I read that here.

There are good tips here.

[gymbo]

I was very concerned that once I consulted with a BK attorney, that would flag a date that I knew I was in trouble, and anything I did after that meeting would be scrutinized by a trustee. I think I read that here.

There are good tips here.

I worry about this too! That's part of why I've been holding off.
Someone on this forum linked a court case where Chase made reference to "when the creditors consulted an attorney". (Chase lost the case, but still..)
I can't file for a while and still need cc's (for gas/food) and I am still making payments... I know everyone says - stop using/stop paying but I REALLY cannot have them calling me at work... so I am trying to delay that...

[liz417]

(Disclaimer - I have not seen an atty yet)

But from reading alot - An attorney is bound to advise you not to take on any debt if you are considering filing BK. So if your car is on its last legs and you still have decent credit IT MAY BE in your best interest to get a new car before you file. An attorney cannot tell you that. Or at least they are not supposed to from what I understand.

True...an attorney is not *suppose* to tell you to take on more debt, but mine *suggested* that I prepare myself for bk (ch 13, 5 yr). I purchased a new (actually used) car a few months ago that will be paid outside the plan...

P.S. My car was over 13 yrs old and had over 240k on it...I don't know how much longer it would have lasted (probably not 5 years!) and I hadn't been late on any cc's at that time....

[epiphany]

Your attorney is bound not to tell you to do anything illegal. Inside the law, there should be nothing the attorney cannot advise you on.

The key is to find a good, shrewd attorney, one who will act as Philly said. However, it is up to you to do some homework beforehand. Eductate yourself on what is important to you so that when you do have consultations with lawyers, you will be able to tell if something isn't quite right.

You may very well find that things don't smell right with regards to a particular counsel and that is why it is important to shop around until you find someone you are comfortable with. Someone you feel is going to have your back.

Lawyers are salesmen too so there is no guarantee that you are going to find someone who truly cares about you after the retainer is paid, but if you don't educate yourself, the chances are much higher that you will find someone who absolutely cares not at all.

I am curious though, if you are planniing the BK for a year out at least, and this is something important to you, why wouldn't you just go ahead and finance the car now (keeping the payments current of course) and then reaffirm or just keep paying at the time of the BK?

Come to think of it, why are you planning a BK this far out?


ep

[S2008]

Epiphany,
To answer your question, BK is a possibility because we have too much debt. 100K.
We are a single-income family now, so job loss means BK is possible. I don't expect to lose my job and/or not be able to find another one. The other reason is the declining real estate market. We have two homes. We are about -80K upside down in each one.
Both homes have 1st mtg and HELOC. In both cases, the HELOC's are effectively unsecured. Can BK be beneficial for us by stripping out the HELOC? That is part of my thought process.

However, there is nothing like PLANNING!

A carefully planned BK is very beneficial, where as a poorly planned BK, where one is forced into it can have minimal benefits. For instance, I've seen on this board people with close to 100% repayment plan on BK ch13. Am I missing anything here? What is the benefit of BK in this case? Couldn't they have done that without filing ch13 BK?

[epiphany]

Epiphany,
To answer your question, BK is a possibility because we have too much debt. 100K.
We are a single-income family now, so job loss means BK is possible. I don't expect to lose my job and/or not be able to find another one. The other reason is the declining real estate market. We have two homes. We are about -80K upside down in each one.
Both homes have 1st mtg and HELOC. In both cases, the HELOC's are effectively unsecured. Can BK be beneficial for us by stripping out the HELOC? That is part of my thought process.

However, there is nothing like PLANNING!

A carefully planned BK is very beneficial, where as a poorly planned BK, where one is forced into it can have minimal benefits. For instance, I've seen on this board people with close to 100% repayment plan on BK ch13. Am I missing anything here? What is the benefit of BK in this case? Couldn't they have done that without filing ch13 BK?

I really don't know much about Chapter 13 so hopefully others will answer that question.

The only reason I ask you about planning your BK this far out, is that any debts you take on between then and now that you do not pay for could be considered fraud in the eyes of the BK court because you are already thinking about BK. I am not judging you but know that that is the definition of BK fraud so you need to be careful if you are taking on new debt between now and the time that you might possibly file.

I have another comment and please take this in the good spirit in which it is intended. If you are already struggling, and the only thing that is keeping you between bankruptcy or not, is the fact that you are able to pay your bills but are barely able to scrape by (and I don't know that's you, you say you are not desparate yet but I don't know what that means to you), then you should probably rethink your timeline for filing.

Generally, the sooner one realizes that his financial situation is going south, the better and easier the BK. I myself, wish I had realized this much sooner.

Good luck to you whatever your situation.

ep