Took the First Step Today

[bkfiler]

That's what we were told today, Staci. The 25% is a function of the Means Test only. Sched's I and J are the real indicators. And there is no set % to debt repayment in Ch 13. It's totally based on disposable income when I and J are compared. If you can only pay back 5%, you only pay back 5%. Because the whole time you're paying, the attny and the Court make money. The Court is paid their fee, the attny get's the remainder of their fee, and then Priority and Secured debts get theirs. Unsecured is at the bottom of the list.

And a Trustee/Judge can look at anyone's J and think to themselves, "I can squeeze more out of this budget", and start lopping amounts off here and there. Their mindset, Trustee and/or Judge, is that their life does not have to conform, the debtor's does. And it doesn't matter to them if they cut you too low on food, or clothes, or gasoline, or eliminate what you spend on firewood to heat your home. It's not their problem. It's yours, the debtor's.

well it will be good to figure this out. its all very complex as to how much you have to pay back.

as for lopping off amounts, they trustee has to object to the case and win the battle if he is wrong. its not just a matter of him slicing it down on a whim.

[SinkingFast]

In going thru our expenses sheet, rent is at the top. And that's the first thing he hit on. He said our rent is too high. He already knew I'd been researching so he asked me what the "allowable" was. I said $969/mo for rent AND utilities. So he wanted to know why our rent was so high. Why had we selected this particular house. I told him about Mom living with us. No we can't consider her as a dependent. That we needed something with more room than the smaller houses. We were down to 2. This one and another one. We chose this one because the other one was a 2 story. All the bedrooms were upstairs and Mom could not climb the stairs. Stairs was not an issue for her in this house. He was satisfied with our explanation. But he also said, the Trustee could look at that and reduce it. Tell us we will have to find another place to live that is within the Living Standards amount/month.

I wrote down $1100 for food. That's what I spent last month and I have grocery receipts to back it up. I told him that. And I told him that lined up with my CC charges from months before. But the attny lopped our food expense yesterday. He said that would never fly in the court. So he changed it to $700. Which I completely don't understand at all. I've seen several of his cases where he filed $400/mo for 2 people. Wouldn't 5 people spend 2.5 times as much?? or $1000???

We went thru the 3 big shopping trips we could remember and knew we'd spent $750 on clothes last year for sure. Not counting tossing in socks, underwear, and such. Or picking up an item here and there. I had put down $100/mo for clothes. He doubled that to $200. He said no way do 5 people, especially with 3 teens, only spend $100/mo on clothes.

He questioned $200/mo for medicals. I explained how I got there. He was satisfied with that. Suggested that we might actually up that dollar amount.

He told us he would argue that our insurance rates are higher due to teens. That is understandable. All families go thru that 3-5 year, whatever period of time when their kids are driving and their rates are higher. That's justifyable. But he also wanted us to get a break down price as well. How much it actually cost to insure Hubby's and my car, without the kids vehicles as that may be what he might be forced into by the Trustee.

He also said cell phones are not a necessity. That one may get knocked off as an expense. I said for the "health, welfare, and safety of your dependents". Went thru the whole speil about kids breaking down, etc. He said we (talking about himself, hubby, and I we are all about the same age) broke down w/o cell phones and we survived. Just cause it's an allowed expense on the Means Test doesn't mean the Trustee will allow it on Sched J. Even tho he fussed about it, he did leave it on our sheet.

At the bottom of the sheet, he had a misc catch all section for expenses not itemized above. I wrote down $100/mo for gifts. We have 5 birtdays and 5 people each to buy for for Christmas just in our own family. Not counting Hubby's parents and no one else. He said that might get taken out all together. He said OK to school lunches, hair cuts, licenses. Suggested we move firewood expense into the household electric and heating category. Then he asked, "Do you really spend $100/mo on firewood?" We said yep. He said we needed to rephrase "Work and College lunches".

When he got to cigarettes, that's when he launched into the whole "You're the debtor. I'm not. Your lifestyle has to conform. Mine doesn't." litany. Even tho they all smoke. Judges and Trustees. They have a room inside the Court House where they open the window and stand in there and smoke. Inside a "smoke free" building. He said the Judges and the Trustee will go thru the filer's expenses with a fine toothed comb. Looking for anything to toss or trim. To get money for a Ch 13 payment plan.

He also said that first attny, who wanted us to pay $197/mo,........... If we had gone in with him, the Court probably woulda went thru cutting expenses here and there until we were paying $400-$500/month. $197/mo is not worth the time and expense associated with a Ch 13 plan.

It was depressing. Like we weren't beat down enough. Now the Court is gonna beat us up some more??