Excuse me while I rant....

[Danielle1981]

You know sometimes I read posts and it almost comes across as if people are filing bankruptcy because they don't want to pay not because it's a last resort. I can understand major life events coming along or you had an unexpected bill that's going to be impossible to pay but I've read some posts that lead me to believe that they knew they couldn't pay off that debt and embarked on it anyway. It's some what upsetting. It's amazed me to see people specifically plotting 3 and 4 years ahead on how to best keep their stuff and they know they are in way over their heads but keep going on the credit deeper and deeper. Almost like there's no sense of responsibility anywhere.

Alright I feel better now....had to get that off my chest.

[Graphic]

Well usually people file bankruptcy because they aren't money managers. Sometimes things come up and they lose a lot all at once but others just don't know how to manage money well. Which is the case for most everyone. Hence bk helps you learn your lesson, might not be the cheapest lesson but it's still a lesson learned. If you don't learn from the lesson and go back to your ways of before then you'll end up in the same boat as before.

My situation personally.. I don't owe a WHOLE lot so I still haven't decided if I am going to file. If everything goes as planned I might just wait till I finish college and get my degree/ job and then start paying people. If those people don't want to wait then they can kiss my ass personally. I'll be the first to say I was irresponsible with my money. Can I turn back the time now that I KNOW that? No. Have I learned from it though, yes.

On the situation of planning ahead... I don't blame some people. Sometimes people are given things or heirlooms etc and they don't want to part with them. So you are saying it's ok for the court to take family items or gifts that were given by someone else, nothing that you went into debt to get? I don't agree. I think they have the right to take stuff that was purchased with credit or you obviously received through credit somehow. No one can make me think that a court has the right to take anyones heirlooms and make them PAY them back for it just because they managed money wrong.

Creditors thrive on people that don't know how to manage money. It's fine and dandy for them to offer people more credit lines or for them to be late afew payments because they want to get that interest. Then you get into a situation where you are bogged down and you've paid what you bought over and over but that interest is still there. Then when you want help they don't want to hear it (in most cases some cc companies are more sensitive from what I've seen). Am I saying they should be sensitive? Not necessarily because they are a business trying to make money. Do I agree with it ethics wise? No. But everyone is all about that dollar bill. Tell them you are filing bankruptcy and watch their attitude towards you change dramatically.

So it isn't JUST the consumer. It's the creditors as well that I would say manage things wrong. They should be more strict on reviewing what people really make and what their debt to income ratio is before giving credit so easy. Will they do that? Of course not, they will lose money then.

The end

[lilgoose]

So, WHY did YOU file?

It doesn't take a MAJOR LIFE EVENT to cause a person to have to file. I bet that you had a situation that would make someone else shake their head in amazement because they will think you did it for the wrong reasons, even if they weren't. Yes, there are people out there that are abusing the system. I actually know one that we tried to talk them out of what they choose to do and do things a little differently~to no avail. I won't disagree with you on the subject of abusing the system, but there are many, many who really need to file.

My situation is this: I was on Worker's Comp for almost 4 years. One day a case management person, who was hired by the employer, calls me up and says that she is here to make sure that all the paper work is handled correctly and that she will help make the transition back to work a smooth one, when the time is right. This was 6 wks after having a double surgery from the injury. LSS~she forced my dr into signing a release for me to work when I wasn't physically ready. That stopped my w/c pay, which is what she was really there for. Now, add the threat of credit card pymts doubling and it was a scary situation for my hubby to be in. We decided, after lots of talking and writing out the pros and cons of filing, that it was our only option. No, we didn't want to. He had an awesome credit rating that was on the verge of excellent and had no problems getting unsecured loans. But, with the loss of my little bit of income, we had to do something. There was no chance of my going back to work. I still, to this day, am not working. It hurt. We have learned a lesson (as far as not using credit cards that get you no where except instant gratification and delayed pain when the bill comes over and over again with interest that is more than what it would cost to send a kid to college) and are planning a long life that is credit card free. This has all happened since the beginning of Aug. It was a hard choice to make and we have 2 children who count on us to take care of them. We had to make the decision that was best for us.

Be it right or wrong, it was that person's decision and they are the ones who have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

This is why the new laws have taken place.

[Busted42]

Some of us, me included, don't post all the reasons what led us to file in the first place. I am on here to hopefully find some answers to my questions. And I have, thanks to some very knowledgable members. I'm not on here to tell you my life story....which, by the way, is soon to be doomed. Thanks to my divorce. Ya happy now?

[pink_amulet]

OK we filed because of YEARS (yes years) of medical bills only had 1 credit card with only $400 balance. We couldn't get on top of things, but we did accumulate more bills while we were "waiting to file". Who doesn't?? Don't get me wrong we didn't go and do a bunch of payday loans or anything stupid. We had try to get the money together in order to file. So for us, Yes we knew down the line we would have to file, but it basically is one of those things you wish would just go away.

I PERSONALLY do not care what people think....anyone who is here are in the same boat as the rest of us, so there isn't much room to judge!!

Pink

[Danielle1981]

So why did I file....hmmm....let's see, cancer. They discovered cancer in my thyroid which spread to my lymph nodes which was pretty much a death sentence. My chances of coming out alive were pretty slim. I had health insurance at the time which covered 90%, however I got left with about 80K worth of hospital bills. Had I died I would have left my family in a financially secure position since I am insured through my employer for 500K. However, that isn't the way the cards rolled out. I have zero credit card debt and since I knew I wasn't going to be working I did not charge them up. Personally, I would have considered that irresponsible. Some people have hope of being able to pay those back and that is why they charge them up. I didn't see myself paying that back so I didn't charge those up. I reorganized everything I could, cut out unnecessary expenses and when I saw my disability insurance wasn't going to cover the house payment I handed that back in too. My bills consist of a hospital bill and whatever the difference is on that house. I've paid on those hospital bills every month. Problem is....with interest I won't be paying those off in this lifetime.

I have no problems with people who made a mistake and realize that there's no way they are going to pay that in their life times and there's pretty much no other choice. I'm talking about people that go out and deliberately go out and buy that big screen and go hide it and file. I'm talking about people that plot in advance all the stuff they are going to get and how they are going to hide it and file bankruptcy. And yes I read a post like that....not on this board by the way. It irritated me.

Everyone that replied to this is a little different in that they probably charged those cards thinking things will get better and I'll get it off my back. So please don't be offended. I wasn't refering to anyone here.

[Danielle1981]

Let me phrase it this way.....going to Graphics heirlooms....let's say anyone here has their heirlooms and you've worked your butt off getting all this stuff then all of a sudden for any reason you just can't pay your bills and have to resort to bankrupty and lose that.

Then there's Bob over there who really didn't have anything that just planned to get a computer, big screen tv, nice stereo system and decided after he got this he was going to file bankruptcy because he really didn't want to pay for all that stuff so he files for bankruptcy but before then he manages to hide all this stuff.

Isn't the situation a little different? On one hand you're fighting not to lose your stuff but Bob just doesn't care and he's playing the system....somewhat unfair in my opinion.

I don't think bankruptcy makes you a bad person. I was just reading about someone who was obviously abusing the system. That's what I'm ranting about.

I didn't mean for it to be taken the way it was.

[Pinktiger]

I think that you've been watching too much TV, Danielle, LOL. There are probably people out there like Bob; I've often thought while going through this process, that had I planned it, I could have saved myself a lot of grief. But most people don't plan on failure. And the credit card trap catches them, and the desperation heaps up and up, and soon they are contemplating either killing themselves or committing crimes against others. The self-hatred and feelings of remorse are horrible. Why would anyone plan this? And who knows what awaits us past discharge? How many years of being branded as a bankrupt? Will it destroy our chances in business, our hopes to make a better life?

I'm writing this all off the top of my head from my own fears. I sat there in the 341 hearings and watched all the people who had filed along with me. They weren't hiding riches. Most were worse off than me. We were all desperate. At the bottom of our lives.

I don't think any of us would have planned to end there.

[bkfiler]

You know sometimes I read posts and it almost comes across as if people are filing bankruptcy because they don't want to pay not because it's a last resort. I can understand major life events coming along or you had an unexpected bill that's going to be impossible to pay but I've read some posts that lead me to believe that they knew they couldn't pay off that debt and embarked on it anyway. It's some what upsetting. It's amazed me to see people specifically plotting 3 and 4 years ahead on how to best keep their stuff and they know they are in way over their heads but keep going on the credit deeper and deeper. Almost like there's no sense of responsibility anywhere.

Alright I feel better now....had to get that off my chest.

i more amazed at you passing judgement on people. i hope no one passed judgement you. you cant know what or how a person got to this situation to file bk. also, more people realize that they are having trouble paying their bills but keep using credit all year long. it takes some people up to 7 years to wortk themselves into it. and for whatever reason they realize they are in trouble and need relief.

i think your comments were unwarranted and short sided. not to mention that there really was no reason for you to mention that.

(is there too much 'light' in here for your folks too. why do i get that feeling)

[Anj]

It just sounds like you are frustrated. (hug) I know it sucks... because it is like if you are gonna crash and burn - at least do it having fun... but you got sick and that burned you.

HOWEVER - there is a bright side... you are alive - you are obviously well enough to be here - your credit will be redeemed w/time.

This blows - but it's like this...

It is what it is - whatever brought us to BK - it is what it is...

Hang in there...
A

[edwards2]

I agree with you bkfiler. I have read a lot of posts and sat in a 341 too that was jammed with people at the point of desperation. I am sure there are people like Bob but he would be far cry from the majority. I resent someone questioning my motives because not only did my husband and I have to deal with the fallout from a medical catastrophie, we like everyone else, have had to deal with the monster backlash from filing BK. In case you non-filers didnt know filing BK is no walk in the park. It is embarrassing and humiliating not to mention the poor credit stigma on our finances which will last at least 10 years. Lenders still label us as poor credit risks and I am sure at least intially we are. That is until we manage to climb slowly out of our dilemma- one we all chose because we had no other options. I dont have a big screen tv or a new car and frankly wouldnt have one whether I had filed or not. Times are changing and people who file are not necessarily stereotyped as financially challenged or lazy. Ours was not credit card debt - it was thousands of dollars in medical debt from a medical disaster my husband suffered. Not that it is anyone's business but ours but that is our reality. I dont judge people who filed for other reasons -that is their business - but I do feel their pain regardless. There are many famous people who have filed BK - is it different for them because they are famous? Do people judge them as they do us? I think not. So please this is a very supportive forum and we do not appreciate nor solicit opinions from people who have not been there...done that as we have. This is one of those experiences you have to go through to understand.
By the way I am curious Danielle...why are you on this forum?

[Graphic]

Some people do try to hide things such as a big screen or other items like that. While it is frustrating, that's not near as bad to me as people using other systems such as welfare and disability all those types of things. However you can't do anything about it really. It's up to the courts to find out if they are telling the truth or not.

[Danielle1981]

Apparently some people read somethings I said but not everything. If you don't read it all then it's easy to take it out of context. I'm on this forum to gather information. I'm not sure that anything other than bankruptcy is going to be a way out but certainly going to try to avoid it if possible.

By the way to be more specific, I was refering to one particular post (and AGAIN not on this board) about someone who was younger (19) saying that he was going to go out and buy a bunch of things on credit and he could file when he was about 22 and hide everything so they couldn't take it. According to him he would be young enough by the time the bankruptcy was off his record that he could start all over. Not a well thought out process cause by the time he goes to file....seriously, how much could that stuff be worth? However, the thought of someone doing that.....is sick. It was not meant towards anyone here because most people here I've read are concerned with re-establishing their credit not thinking what can I get for free. I was thinking about how I have to go in and fill a paper out about everything I own (count my panties for them) while someone else just goes in there and lies. And every person after me has to also do the same because of people like this person.

[pink_amulet]

Apparently some people read somethings I said but not everything. If you don't read it all then it's easy to take it out of context. I'm on this forum to gather information. I'm not sure that anything other than bankruptcy is going to be a way out but certainly going to try to avoid it if possible.

By the way to be more specific, I was refering to one particular post (and AGAIN not on this board) about someone who was younger (19) saying that he was going to go out and buy a bunch of things on credit and he could file when he was about 22 and hide everything so they couldn't take it. According to him he would be young enough by the time the bankruptcy was off his record that he could start all over. Not a well thought out process cause by the time he goes to file....seriously, how much could that stuff be worth? However, the thought of someone doing that.....is sick. It was not meant towards anyone here because most people here I've read are concerned with re-establishing their credit not thinking what can I get for free. I was thinking about how I have to go in and fill a paper out about everything I own (count my panties for them) while someone else just goes in there and lies. And every person after me has to also do the same because of people like this person.

There are bad eggs everywhere, in every situation . Just because you happened to read...about a few cases (ON A DIFFERENT SITE) of where people hid assets, that is not the norm!
I DID read your first post all the way through, and I do understand your frustration. However I also feel along with other posters (I think) that you came off the wrong way. You didn't fully explain your point until in your later responses. That's why people responded to you they way we did. We have had ALOT of NEW people come on here just to put us down, and degrade us for filing for BK . We do not want to be here any more than you, however BK is real and we are here to support each other, your post sounded a bit standoffish, and I hope you can understand where we are coming from...we feel like we are always under attack.

I hope you can obtain all the info you need from the forum, that will educated you into making the right decision for you and your family .

Good luck

Pink

[lilgoose]

Sweetie, we have all had to count our undies! I think that some of the things they ask are pretty much just to humiliate the person who has enough humiliation to deal with. I can't believe that some trustees are allowed to get away with how they treat people. If you were in an inmate and the warden treated you this way, you could file a lawsuit against them. But, as a bk filier, you are at their mercy and their bad moods. Ours was very nice and easy to deal with. He did not make us feel belittle, but hoped that we took advantage that this fresh start was giving us.

I guess the attitudes are all in why the person is filing.

On thing that I can tell you is that when you fill out that paper, leave blank anything that you are unsure of and when you meet with your attorney, have him/her help in filling in "numbers" that are reasonable. If you don't want to count your undies, then don't! :o)

I know that filing has devastated a lot of people/couples and ruined a lot of marriages. We are one of the few that has survived the stress and problems that can be caused from this. I know that my marriage is stronger for it. Yes, we did make it thru with a whole lot less stress than most people, but we still have come away with the same attitude as most people~let us learn from out mistakes and move on...We have learned to "do without" and are in the process of teaching our children the value of money and the stability of jobs. We have not hid anything from our children, the younger being a little too young to understand. It has been a life lesson and one that has serious consequences. Our son knows that it is not "an easy way out" and what it will do to us and how it will affect him also. He knows that it isn't and he does have an understanding.

I know that he won't grow up to be that "19 yr-old" and do something stupid.

As I said before, these people who want to go out and take advantage are why the new law is in place. I know someone who filed back in Sept last year whose meeting was mid-Dec. They are still not discharged due to some things that they chose to do right before. I don't know what will happen with them if they are denied as they are filing Ch 7 and have not made any payments on things (credit cards and car loans) since then. They even have the same attorney as we did and ours went the course and is over now.

Well, I guess I have rambled on and on enough...........

Good luck with your recovery along with how things turn out for you. Keep the Faith and keep your chin up.

P.S. Don't be ashamed if you only own 5 pairs of undies and the next person owns 50! Some people have priorities that make us scratch our head in wonder...........