I Finally Got an Answer from an Attny!!

[SinkingFast]

OK,......... I finally got an answer from an attny about our truck!!

Unreal how hard it was!!

After reading Tattered in Texas' plight with the IRS, I thought if we could get an IRS lien on our truck we could keep it.

A little research on IRS liens and we don't wanna go there if we can avoid it. IRS liens,.......... Nobody will touch you for credit.

Coming outa BK, what do you wanna do??!! Rebuild credit. Can't rebuild credit if nobody will lend to you. Nobody will lend to you with an IRS lien on your credit report. So that's a big NO!!

Back to selling the truck to pay the taxes.

Our attny drug his feet about dealing with our house issue. Today is the day the Lender will pull the file for review to start Foreclosure. I got mad and called another attny for a Consult appt. Actually got to speak to the attny.

While chatting with the attny, I told her we owe huge taxes for last year. We'd planned to sell our truck to pay the taxes. She wasn't real thrilled about that. I asked if the Trustee will be mad? Well kinda, the attny said. I said to the attny, "The money from the sale will pay off the loan, secured credit, and taxes, IRS is a priority creditor, so there's really nothing the Trustee can do. Right?" The attny said, "You really have done your research!" She said the Trustee can't call that preferential payment since it's a secured creditor and the Trustee won't mess with the IRS. Even if the Trustee isn't happy with us, there's not much he/she can do about it.

So I ask her, the attny, why we can't refi the truck to cash out the equity to pay the IRS the tax money. The attny said if we take on new debt, while not having paid our other creditors, she would be obligated to file us as a Ch 13. Even tho we're below the Median, and have no assets otherwise, she'd have to file us as a Ch 13. The Court would not allow us to go 7 if we refi the truck to pay the IRS.

Now here's the kicker. We've been worried about our equity in the truck if we tried to take it thru BK. Why let the Trustee sieze it and sell if and take their cut and leave us owing some to the Lender or the IRS. The attny said the Trustee won't take the truck. Our other vehicles are old and high mileage. Won't bring much at sale. So they won't be of interest to the Trustee. And, there's a loan on the newer truck. So even with the equity, the Trustee wouldn't sieze it either. She said the Trustee would figure an amount he/she'd be happy with, and let us buy the truck back from the Court. We could even pay it off in payments at no interest. But if we do that, we're still stuck with the IRS debt, and have to make payments to keep the truck on top of it all.

Is this unreal??

Sell the truck to pay our taxes and piss off the Trustee??!!

Or, have to buy back our truck from the Court, and still owe the IRS??!!

Damned if we do. Damned if we don't.

[GoingDown]

OK,......... I finally got an answer from an attny about our truck!!

Unreal how hard it was!!

After reading Tattered in Texas' plight with the IRS, I thought if we could get an IRS lien on our truck we could keep it.

A little research on IRS liens and we don't wanna go there if we can avoid it. IRS liens,.......... Nobody will touch you for credit.

Coming outa BK, what do you wanna do??!! Rebuild credit. Can't rebuild credit if nobody will lend to you. Nobody will lend to you with an IRS lien on your credit report. So that's a big NO!!

Back to selling the truck to pay the taxes.

Our attny drug his feet about dealing with our house issue. Today is the day the Lender will pull the file for review to start Foreclosure. I got mad and called another attny for a Consult appt. Actually got to speak to the attny.

While chatting with the attny, I told her we owe huge taxes for last year. We'd planned to sell our truck to pay the taxes. She wasn't real thrilled about that. I asked if the Trustee will be mad? Well kinda, the attny said. I said to the attny, "The money from the sale will pay off the loan, secured credit, and taxes, IRS is a priority creditor, so there's really nothing the Trustee can do. Right?" The attny said, "You really have done your research!" She said the Trustee can't call that preferential payment since it's a secured creditor and the Trustee won't mess with the IRS. Even if the Trustee isn't happy with us, there's not much he/she can do about it.

So I ask her, the attny, why we can't refi the truck to cash out the equity to pay the IRS the tax money. The attny said if we take on new debt, while not having paid our other creditors, she would be obligated to file us as a Ch 13. Even tho we're below the Median, and have no assets otherwise, she'd have to file us as a Ch 13. The Court would not allow us to go 7 if we refi the truck to pay the IRS.

Now here's the kicker. We've been worried about our equity in the truck if we tried to take it thru BK. Why let the Trustee sieze it and sell if and take their cut and leave us owing some to the Lender or the IRS. The attny said the Trustee won't take the truck. Our other vehicles are old and high mileage. Won't bring much at sale. So they won't be of interest to the Trustee. And, there's a loan on the newer truck. So even with the equity, the Trustee wouldn't sieze it either. She said the Trustee would figure an amount he/she'd be happy with, and let us buy the truck back from the Court. We could even pay it off in payments at no interest. But if we do that, we're still stuck with the IRS debt, and have to make payments to keep the truck on top of it all.

Is this unreal??

Sell the truck to pay our taxes and piss off the Trustee??!!

Or, have to buy back our truck from the Court, and still owe the IRS??!!

Damned if we do. Damned if we don't.

Not that I should be giving advice on this sort of issue, but I think selling the truck to pay off the taxes would be the best thing to do. The IRS can actually put you in jail for not paying taxes, but the trustee can't. The trustee just wants the equity money to line his own pockets, and he doesn't care about the fact that you would still owe money to the IRS after your bankruptcy is finished. Besides, the trustee is always the foe of the debtor, so don't worry about pissing him off. By being well educated in BK laws, you can use the laws against him, and not cave in to any intimidation from him.

[edwards2]

sinkingfast...you really are in a catch22 situation but I agree with goingdown...who gives a flip about the trustee...he/she works for the creditors...end of discussion. IRS is the 500 lb gorilla...they play hardball so I would do what you can to pay them off. We owed them too at a time when we were already in major debt from my husband's hospital stay so we struck a deal with them and made payments. I know what it is like to get that IRS letter in the mail. It is scary. SO again if you have to choose - pay IRS. Even the trustee wont try and override them.

[SinkingFast]

That's pretty much what we'd already decided to do. Sell. Pay the loan. Pay the taxes.

Chatting with the attny was one last ditch effort to find out why, legally speaking, we couldn't refi. And to learn if what we suspected was true. Selling was gonna PO the Trustee.

When the attny said she'd have to file us as a Ch 13 if we refi'd, I thought "That's it." Who wants a Ch 13 if you can get a 7??

I'm not real thrilled about going in knowing the Trustee is gonna be PO'd right off the bat.

Wonder if we'll have to be digging up boxes and boxes of old info from years gone by??!!

[jane taylor]

Dear Sinking:

Your research really is impressive! I, too, would sell the truck and pay my taxes. It would be the lesser of the evils.

We are paying back taxes from when I was self-employed in '03 in the Chapter 13.

Our attorney has been doing BK for the past 20+ years and says that he doesn't have many clients who do their homework in the process.

Good luck.

[SinkingFast]

I've spent quite a bit of time researching on PACER as well. I stumbled around a bit to start, but then I got pretty good at it.

I've run up about $150 in PACER charges looking at people's cases, how different attny's filed things, what people claimed in expenses, etc.

I slipped up and mentioned being on PACER to an attny. He asked how I got on there.

I said it's Public Access Records. I registered, got an ID and a password assigned to me just like he did. The attny didn't seem to like it very much that I could do that. But Oh Well. His problem. Not mine.

I'm not gonna presume to tell an attny about the law. They know that part. But, hey, a girl can learn some things can't she??!!

[SinkingFast]

Maybe we entered into their "inner sanctum"??!!

It's a sacred place. For BK attnys and Trustees only. Ya think??!!

Even tho I learned about it here, I can tell any attny, or Trustee for that matter, I got the link at the DOJ website. It's there too. HeeHee!!

[13inOR]

Thats wierd, I wonder why these lawyers would care if you look at pacer or not??? Thats odd.

[jane taylor]

I asked my attorney about keeping up with our case on PACER and he didn't seem all that bothered by it. He said we could certainly do that if we wanted to. Our paralegal said, too, she would be glad to update us monthly.

[Minnymouth]

Attorneys don't like Pacer because you can track WHAT THEY DO and WHEN THEY DO IT........
I think Pacer is "GREAT".............John Q Public needs to be able to keep up with what's going on with their cases. Your lawyer sure won't tell ya nothing..........till you pester the fire out of them...........
On pacer you can look at other similar cases and see the outcome.... Course you can run up a big bill doing this too!!

Lawyers are "real funny" about their little circle..... Believe me I know, a lot of my friends are attorney's. (a lot of help they were in my case huh?). They all practiced criminal law and not bk law. Now if I was in jail for murder - MY CIRCLE OF FRIENDS WOULD BE FANSTASTIC!!.

Yes - PACER IS A GOOD THING!

[sol1899]

BK attorneys are worse than ambulance chasers. They do not want you to know about pacer because then you could handle your own case and get better results.