Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

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Working on the expenses form

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  • Working on the expenses form


    I just had a quick question about doing the expenses form. I'm not looking at the form now, but I believe it's schedule J. I am surrendering my house. Rent is going to be more than my house payment. Do I use what I believe my rent will be on the expenses statement or what the house payment is? I'm currently not paying on the mortgage. Regardless, I'll have to have somewhere to live.

    Also, for self employed, would I enter the 25% estimate for taxes on this page too? I have been too broke to make estimated tax payments but regardless the taxes have to be paid.

    I'm going to be purchasing a vehicle as well. I have to. I don't know yet what my car payments will be or car insurance. Do I go ahead and put my best estimate on there, since I expect to have this expense moving forward? I have found a local car lot willing to work with me, so I plan on buying as soon as I start getting paid again (I had to switch banks and move my DD since my checking account was frozen).

    I had a consultation at an attorney's office a ways back, but my situation was different then. At that time, I planned on keeping the house. I do remember they said you fill out the form with the idea of how you were going to move forward, in regards to what expenses you would have etc. But again things have changed.

    Also, a side question. I've been doing research as to what similar houses in the neighborhood have sold for, and I see that I'm more than likely upside down by at least $5,000 on the mortgage. As I'm filling out my forms, I don't need to do any type of exemption for any equity I could possibly have, right? I don't believe I have any equity, since I believe I am upside down. As a just in case, though, (and to make sure I'm doing this right) I don't need to do any type of exemption for any possible equity? As it stands, I'm going to let the house go to foreclosure.

  • #2
    For Schedule J I put the amount of my housing payment (regardless of whether it was being paid at the time). You would base your taxes on what you have done in the past. If your prior year IRS Form 1040 is a good source to determine your actual (effective) tax rate. If you have State income taxes, then look to those forms as well. The trustee will be double checking these numbers based on your actual payment of taxes (by reviewing your tax returns).

    I would not fill out the forms if you don't know that these numbers. I assume you're going to purchase prior to filing. You can't put "future" unknown values on the form, so you'll have to wait to determine your monthly payment (and what goes on Schedule J).

    Whether to claim an exemption on a home that is upside down is both a strategy and a tough legal question. If you are able to use an "unused homestead exemption" how you treat the home could impact your use of that exemption. You literally have to do the math. If claiming a homestead exemption on the home that has no equity causes other property to be exposed (because you can't use the unused homestead exemption), is a question that can only be answered with math. In some Districts, even here in Florida, sneaky Trustees will take homes that were not exempted and try to short-sell them with a fee to the bank to liquidate the property. That make the whole "should I claim a homestead exemption in a home with no equity" a legal position that requires thought and careful planning. (Search your State for "carveouts" from the Trustees in such cases.). See Sixth Circuit Affirms Holding That “Carve Out” Recovered By Chapter 7 Trustee Did Not Constitute Equity in the Debtors’ Property Subject to Debtors’ Exemptions. It's not common, but it is a factor.

    I would especially be cautious only being, maybe, $5,000 under. That is argumentative and the Trustee may "believe" that it's worth more. Strategy is important and that strategy should factor all the issues.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.


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