Riots in Hong Kong after heavy stock losses

[JRScott]

I would disagree capitalism isn't what has caused this problem.

What caused the problem was pretending were were a capitalist system while then having the government take a more socialist viewpoint with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The government then pressuring banks and mortgage lenders to give loans to people that the lenders knew could not afford them. Without Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac this would not have happened.

The reason the bail out package didn't work and will not work is because you have one group of bad paper bailing out another. There is not real confidence world wide in the US Governments ability to pay off its debts and meet its liabilities, thus they see the bail out as a hollow promise at best.

To restore confidence in the system the government must trim back. They must slash spending until it hurts. This means broad cuts across domestic, entitlement, and military spending.

The problem right now is we have to many folks looking for a government bail out for their errors. Contrary to Obama and McCain's rhetoric the system hasn't been fair for decades. The tax code desparately needs fixing but no one in Washington wants to fix it. For it to truly work every American must pay something into the system, without that pain folks don't pay attention to what their leaders do, and that leads us to

[debtmonster]

Capitalism is what caused the economy to collapse...and all the actions the government "didn't" take also perpetuated all this mess.

Yep. They should put caps on what CEO's can make. I think it's nuts that people can get away with making such large salaries while all of the hard working people under them get paid squat. I hate Capitalism. But everything I've ever heard or read about says socialism and communism don't work and to look how it has failed miserably in other countries.

I believe in Capitalism, I just don't believe in a CEO making $100 million per year while the hard working people under him were only making $30-70k. That wealth should be spread out. The $100 million should be capped to like $2 million while the other $80 million is spread to those employees at the bottom for doing all the work.

I know life isn't fair... but it should be

[epiphany]

Capitalism is what caused the economy to collapse...and all the actions the government "didn't" take also perpetuated all this mess.

I actually think capitalism can be a very good thing. But what becomes a problem is capitalism unchecked.

JRS wrote:

What caused the problem was pretending were were a capitalist system while then having the government take a more socialist viewpoint with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The government then pressuring banks and mortgage lenders to give loans to people that the lenders knew could not afford them. Without Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac this would not have happened.

Sure that got the ball rolling but did all other lenders have to jump on the band wagon and lessen lending restrictions too? Loans that were repeatedly being denied by loan agents were being pushed through by higher ups in the company in order to make that almighty buck.

The reason the bail out package didn't work and will not work is because you have one group of bad paper bailing out another. There is not real confidence world wide in the US Governments ability to pay off its debts and meet its liabilities, thus they see the bail out as a hollow promise at best.

Well, I sure agree with that. We don't have any confidence, why would anyone else? And I don't for the life of me know how they are going to figure out what exactly they are buying from the financial institutions. Many loans were farmed out/sold in pieces to investors both here and abroad. How they heck are they going to sort that out?

To restore confidence in the system the government must trim back. They must slash spending until it hurts. This means broad cuts across domestic, entitlement, and military spending.

I agree with this too but just don't see it happening. How's that for confidence?

The problem right now is we have to many folks looking for a government bail out for their errors. Contrary to Obama and McCain's rhetoric the system hasn't been fair for decades. The tax code desparately needs fixing but no one in Washington wants to fix it. For it to truly work every American must pay something into the system, without that pain folks don't pay attention to what their leaders do, and that leads us to

I agree that if everyone had a stake more people would pay attention. But it's not realistic to think that you are ever going to get enough people to pay such attention that is makes a difference just due to plain old fashioned human nature so unfortunately I don't see this ever happening. Especially not right now when government officials are just trying to figure out which public freebies will be most effective at keeping them in office.


What an unsettling time.

ep

[JRScott]

You'll never get everyone to pay attention but I do believe a majority of Americans would pay attention if they had to pay a minimum of 10% of their income. Reagan once said "10 percent no more, that's what God asks and who are we to ask for more."

Yes it would be painful, but the fact we have so many not paying any taxes is why we have a government running amok.

As for why the other banks followed Fannie and Freddie, they were pressured to do so by Senator Dodd, Rep. Frank, and organizations such as ACORN. They were threatened with sanctions and the inability to do mergers if they failed to give out a certain amount of sub prime loans.

In order to just balance the Federal Budget you'd need to increase revenue stream by between 40-50%. The alternative is slashing spending by around 30%. The problem is no matter what you charge for the income tax, the revenue stream remains at a nearly constant % of the GDP. High income taxes lead to a lower GDP, lower income taxes lead to a higher GDP.