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Uncle Sam Wants You(r 401k retirement plan)

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    Uncle Sam Wants You(r 401k retirement plan)

    RALEIGH — Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration.

    Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly.

    The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.

    Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Education and Labor, in prepared remarks for the hearing on “The Impact of the Financial Crisis on Workers’ Retirement Security,” blamed Wall Street for the financial crisis and said his committee will “strengthen and protect Americans’ 401(k)s, pensions, and other retirement plans” and the “Democratic Congress will continue to conduct this much-needed oversight on behalf of the American people.”

    Currently, 401(k) plans allow Americans to invest pretax money and their employers match up to a defined percentage, which not only increases workers’ retirement savings but also reduces their annual income tax. The balances are fully inheritable, subject to income tax, meaning workers pass on their wealth to their heirs, unlike Social Security. Even when they leave an employer and go to one that doesn’t offer a 401(k) or pension, workers can transfer their balances to a qualified IRA.

    Mandating Equality

    Ghilarducci’s plan first appeared in a paper for the Economic Policy Institute: Agenda for Shared Prosperity on Nov. 20, 2007, in which she said GRAs will rescue the flawed American retirement income system (www.sharedprosperity.org/bp204/bp204.pdf).

    The current retirement system, Ghilarducci said, “exacerbates income and wealth inequalities” because tax breaks for voluntary retirement accounts are “skewed to the wealthy because it is easier for them to save, and because they receive bigger tax breaks when they do.”

    Lauding GRAs as a way to effectively increase retirement savings, Ghilarducci wrote that savings incentives are unequal for rich and poor families because tax deferrals “provide a much larger ‘carrot’ to wealthy families than to middle-class families — and none whatsoever for families too poor to owe taxes.”

    GRAs would guarantee a fixed 3 percent annual rate of return, although later in her article Ghilarducci explained that participants would not “earn a 3% real return in perpetuity.” In place of tax breaks workers now receive for contributions and thus a lower tax rate, workers would receive $600 annually from the government, inflation-adjusted. For low-income workers whose annual contributions are less than $600, the government would deposit whatever amount it would take to equal the minimum $600 for all participants.

    In a radio interview with Kirby Wilbur in Seattle on Oct. 27, 2008, Ghilarducci explained that her proposal doesn’t eliminate the tax breaks, rather, “I’m just rearranging the tax breaks that are available now for 401(k)s and spreading — spreading the wealth.”

    All workers would have 5 percent of their annual pay deducted from their paychecks and deposited to the GRA. They would still be paying Social Security and Medicare taxes, as would the employers. The GRA contribution would be shared equally by the worker and the employee. Employers no longer would be able to write off their contributions. Any capital gains would be taxable year-on-year.

    Analysts point to another disturbing part of the plan. With a GRA, workers could bequeath only half of their account balances to their heirs, unlike full balances from existing 401(k) and IRA accounts. For workers who die after retiring, they could bequeath just their own contributions plus the interest but minus any benefits received and minus the employer contributions.

    Another justification for Ghilarducci’s plan is to eliminate investment risk. In her testimony, Ghilarducci said, “humans often lack the foresight, discipline, and investing skills required to sustain a savings plan.” She cited the 2004 HSBC global survey on the Future of Retirement, in which she claimed that “a third of Americans wanted the government to force them to save more for retirement.”

    What the survey actually reported was that 33 percent of Americans wanted the government to “enforce additional private savings,” a vastly different meaning than mandatory government-run savings. Of the four potential sources of retirement support, which were government, employer, family, and self, the majority of Americans said “self” was the most important contributor, followed by “government.” When broken out by family income, low-income U.S. households said the “government” was the most important retirement support, whereas high-income families ranked “government” last and “self” first (www.hsbc.com/retirement).

    On Oct. 22, The Wall Street Journal reported that the Argentinean government had seized all private pension and retirement accounts to fund government programs and to address a ballooning deficit. Fearing an economic collapse, foreign investors quickly pulled out, forcing the Argentinean stock market to shut down several times. More than 10 years ago, nationalization of private savings sent Argentina’s economy into a long-term downward spiral.

    Income and Wealth Redistribution

    The majority of witness testimony during recent hearings before the House Committee on Education and Labor showed that congressional Democrats intend to address income and wealth inequality through redistribution.

    On July 31, 2008, Robert Greenstein, executive director of the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, testified before the subcommittee on workforce protections that “from the standpoint of equal treatment of people with different incomes, there is a fundamental flaw” in tax code incentives because they are “provided in the form of deductions, exemptions, and exclusions rather than in the form of refundable tax credits.”

    Even people who don’t pay taxes should get money from the government, paid for by higher-income Americans, he said. “There is no obvious reason why lower-income taxpayers or people who do not file income taxes should get smaller incentives (or no tax incentives at all),” Greenstein said.

    “Moving to refundable tax credits for promoting socially worthwhile activities would be an important step toward enhancing progressivity in the tax code in a way that would improve economic efficiency and performance at the same time,” Greenstein said, and “reducing barriers to labor organizing, preserving the real value of the minimum wage, and the other workforce security concerns . . . would contribute to an economy with less glaring and sharply widening inequality.”

    When asked whether committee members seriously were considering Ghilarducci’s proposal for GSAs, Aaron Albright, press secretary for the Committee on Education and Labor, said Miller and other members were listening to all ideas.

    Miller’s biggest priority has been on legislation aimed at greater transparency in 401(k)s and other retirement plan administration, specifically regarding fees, Albright said, and he sent a link to a Fox News interview of Miller on Oct. 24, 2008, to show that the congressman had not made a decision.

    After repeated questions asked by Neil Cavuto of Fox News, Miller said he would not be in favor of “killing the 401(k)” or of “killing the tax advantages for 401(k)s.”

    Arguing against liberal prescriptions, William Beach, director of the Center for Data Analysis at the Heritage Foundation, testified on Oct. 24 that the “roots of the current crisis are firmly planted in public policy mistakes” by the Federal Reserve and Congress. He cautioned Congress against raising taxes, increasing burdensome regulations, or withdrawing from international product or capital markets. “Congress can ill afford to repeat the awesome errors of its predecessor in the early days of the Great Depression,” Beach said.

    Instead, Beach said, Congress could best address the financial crisis by making the tax reductions of 2001 and 2003 permanent, stopping dependence on demand-side stimulus, lowering the corporate profits tax, and reducing or eliminating taxes on capital gains and dividends.

    Testifying before the same committee in early October, Jerry Bramlett, president and CEO of BenefitStreet, Inc., an independent 401(k) plan administrator, said one of the best ways to ensure retirement security would be to have the U.S. Department of Labor develop educational materials for workers so they could make better investment decisions, not exchange equity investments in retirement accounts for Treasury bills, as proposed in the GSAs.

    Should Sen. Barack Obama win the presidency, congressional Democrats might have stronger support for their “spreading the wealth” agenda. On Oct. 27, the American Thinker posted a video of an interview with Obama on public radio station WBEZ-FM from 2001.

    In the interview, Obama said, “The Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth, and of more basic issues such as political and economic justice in society.” The Constitution says only what “the states can’t do to you. Says what the Federal government can’t do to you,” and Obama added that the Warren Court wasn’t that radical.

    Although in 2001 Obama said he was not “optimistic about bringing major redistributive change through the courts,” as president, he would likely have the opportunity to appoint one or more Supreme Court justices.

    “The real tragedy of the civil rights movement was, um, because the civil rights movement became so court focused that I think there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing and activities on the ground that are able to put together the actual coalition of powers through which you bring about redistributive change,” Obama said.




    -------------------
    Golly gee, I sure am glad I got the government to look after all aspects of my life since I'm to stupid to do anything on my own. Maybe next they can work on a plan to follow me to the bathroom and make sure I wash my hands!


    So-cial-sim

    noun

    Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.


    Com-mu-nism

    noun

    A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.
    Last edited by allavdj; 11-09-2008, 02:15 PM. Reason: spellin'!

    #2
    Do they realize how many jobs would be lost if they did this?
    Filed Chapter 13 05/23/08
    Converted to Chapter 7 Jan 2012
    Discharged April 2012

    Comment


      #3
      Whoa....let's keep this in perspective here.

      The government is only discussing whether it's going to be required to do something to ensure that our 401Ks won't be lost entirely as they very possibly could be if left to the private companies involved.

      *IF* the government does something (and no one is saying they will), the money in the 401Ks is only going to be guaranteed by the gov't for the person who put their money into it. There's no "redistribution of wealth" to anyone but the account owner who might actually have some money left for retirement instead of a big, fat zero.

      So what would you rather have? Government involvement like the big boys on Wall Street had to have so they wouldn't go under and drag all of us down with it? Or leave the market to correct itsefl and end up with nothing in your 401K? It's darned hard to retire on $0 no matter what your personal political leanings might be.
      I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

      06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
      06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
      07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
      10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
      01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
      09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
      06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
      08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

      10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
      Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

      Comment


        #4
        Let me point out

        ---
        The current retirement system, Ghilarducci said, “exacerbates income and wealth inequalities” because tax breaks for voluntary retirement accounts are “skewed to the wealthy because it is easier for them to save, and because they receive bigger tax breaks when they do.”
        ---

        --In a radio interview with Kirby Wilbur in Seattle on Oct. 27, 2008, Ghilarducci explained that her proposal doesn’t eliminate the tax breaks, rather, “I’m just rearranging the tax breaks that are available now for 401(k)s and spreading — spreading the wealth.
        ---

        Let me ask you (any of you) something. If you were making $100k a year, how would you feel about the government saying, "We know you worked really hard going to school and working your way up the ladder to get to where you are...with your nice house, and nice car, and swimming pool, and retirement fund, but this guy down the road who won't try any harder to work someplace besides McDonalds needs some of your money...so we're going to take part of your paycheck and give it to him because he won't save any money on his own" You know what I would say...screw that guy, I worked damn hard to get where I am. If he won't go make something for himself, that's his problem, I didn't spend thousands of dollars going to school, busting my ass to work my way up through the system so I can pay for some jack ass who "can't".

        You know what...I don't believe in "can't" If you "can't" then you aren't trying hard enough. The only people who can use the "can't" excuse are people who are physically or mentally unable anybody else CAN they just don't WANT to bad enough.

        And NO...I don't want the government screwing with my retirement. They hosed Social Security, what makes you think they will do anything different with this?

        Comment


          #5
          I have to agree that this article is pretty frightening.

          I under no circumstances think the government needs control of yet even more of our lives. I have no faith in their ability to manage any sort of large program ( I mean come on social security, medicare and medicaid are facing a 53 trillion dollar deficit in coming years based on projections, we are 10 trillion in debt as a nation, with a possible 1 trillion dollar deficit next year).

          The good thing is if they passed something like this, I don't think they'd be very safe. People don't like it when you take their stuff. Thus I don't think it would ever pass and I think Obama despite my reservations of the man would be smart enough to veto it.

          I agree with allavdj, I see no reason to redistribute wealth. It rewards slothfulness. It punishes hard work. That's what's wrong with our system and why we have an increasing number of high school drop outs nationwide. There is no incentive for them to excel themselves because the government will take care of them no matter how badly they do, and that's wrong.
          May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
          July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
          September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by allavdj View Post
            Let me ask you (any of you) something. If you were making $100k a year, how would you feel about the government saying, "We know you worked really hard going to school and working your way up the ladder to get to where you are...with your nice house, and nice car, and swimming pool, and retirement fund, but this guy down the road who won't try any harder to work someplace besides McDonalds needs some of your money...so we're going to take part of your paycheck and give it to him because he won't save any money on his own" You know what I would say...screw that guy, I worked damn hard to get where I am. If he won't go make something for himself, that's his problem, I didn't spend thousands of dollars going to school, busting my ass to work my way up through the system so I can pay for some jack ass who "can't".
            More right-wing BS above. How do you know every kid working at McDonalds at minimum wage has not further aspirations? What if he is working his way though college? What if his parents were so poor he was lucky to finish high school? Your hatred for the poor and minimum wage worker is disgusting. Not everyone can achieve the high employment ideals you assume. Would you prefer we just apply genocide to all disadvantaged humans with say an IQ of below 95? There will always be minimum wage jobs and workers who are lucky to hold those dead end jobs. Calling them "lazy jackasses" only tells me you are another a redneck from Arkansas.

            Explain how your $100K taxes help the "lazy jackasses". I don't know of any social programs that help the working poor, unless they are so poor they would starve without some aid, such as Food Stamps. Who do you want your taxes to help? How should the government distribute tax revenue? You prefer it all go to Haliburton and the New York bankers and the weapon manufacturers?

            And btw, I was making $100K+ over 20 years ago. I am one of those overachievers who ended up with a good education and career. I paid 50% of my income in taxes, and never felt the envy you seem to have. I was opposed to my tax money going to military spending and unjustified wars for oil - but never felt any contempt for the poor and disadvantaged who my tax dollars may have helped. But I'm not an angry man from the south either - I approve of helping my fellow man in need.
            “When fascism comes to America, it’ll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross” — Sinclair Lewis

            Comment


              #7
              The original article posted above was paid for by the John Locke Foundation, a conservative think tank from NC. They specialize in polarizing views designed to further split this country. A biased article designed to appeal to the right-wing. You lost this election, get used to it.

              John Locke Foundation and it's founders also don't believe in global warming and recieve funding from Exxon-Mobile.

              The Center for Climate Strategies wants to help states cut global warming pollution. A North Carolina think tank funded by energy interests wants to stop them.

              By Sue Sturgis

              Given Washington's reluctance to tackle global warming, many states have recently taken the initiative, drawing up their own plans to cut carbon emissions. For help, 25 states have turned to the Center for Climate Strategies, a nonprofit group of scientists, engineers, business strategists and policy experts who guide states in figuring out how to best reduce greenhouse gas pollution.

              But in recent months, the Center has become the target of concerted attacks by the John Locke Foundation, a conservative North Carolina-based think tank that opposes strict environmental regulations. A longtime skeptic of prevailing climate science, which it criticizes as "alarmist," Locke has published a series of scathing attacks directed at the Center in its own publications and other outlets including the American Spectator, Washington Times, Washington Examiner and the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.

              Why the hostility? Among Locke's criticisms is that the Center for Climate Strategies was founded by an "environmental advocacy group." In fact, it was created by a business-friendly organization, the Pennsylvania Environmental Council, whose current directors include representatives from leading energy companies like PPL Corp., Inter-Power, Exelon and Reliant.

              Locke also criticizes the Center for taking money from foundations that it accuses of being "on the global warming panic train," among them the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, the Turner Foundation and the Heinz Endowments.*

              But Locke's diatribes against the Center fail to disclose the potential bias in its own funding sources. According to an Institute for Southern Studies analysis of the group's tax returns, the John Locke Foundation received at least $126,500 from outfits with ties to the fossil-fuel industry between fiscal 2002 and 2005.

              Looming large behind a number of Locke's funders is ExxonMobil. Since 1998, the oil giant has funneled more than $16 million to several dozen advocacy organizations in an effort that a recent Union of Concerned Scientists report described as seeking "to deceive the public about the reality of global warming" by "using seemingly independent front organizations to publicly further its desired message."

              Among the fossil-fuel-tainted contributions the Locke Foundation has received:

              * $70,000 from the Claude R. Lambe Charitable Foundation, one of the Koch Family Foundations operated by billionaires David and Charles Koch of Koch Industries, the largest privately owned oil company in the United States.

              * $20,000 from the Cato Institute, an anti-regulatory think tank that was co-founded by Charles Koch. Cato has received at least $110,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998, according to ExxonSecrets.org, a Web site sponsored by Greenpeace USA. ExxonSecrets.org also reports that Cato has received funds from such other fossil-fuel interests as the American Petroleum Institute, Chevron and Shell Oil.

              * $15,000 from the Reason Foundation, an anti-regulatory think thank that's received $381,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998, according to ExxonSecrets.org. Reason has also received funds from the American Petroleum Institute, BP Amoco and Koch Industries.

              * $10,000 from the Atlas Economic Research Foundation, an anti-regulatory think tank that's received $780,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998, according to ExxonSecrets.org. Charles Koch is also a major funder.

              * $6,500 from the Center for Energy and Economic Development, a Texas-based nonprofit dedicated to protecting the viability of coal-based electricity.

              * $5,000 from the DCI Group, a Republican lobbying firm that has received $140,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998, according to ExxonSecrets.org.

              The John Locke Foundation's biggest funder is James Arthur "Art" Pope, who founded the organization and has given it more than $8 million since 2002. A former Republican N.C. state representative, Pope has served on the boards of the Exxon-funded Atlas Economic Research Foundation, as well as Citizens for a Sound Economy, another Koch-founded group that's also taken more than $380,000 from ExxonMobil since 1998.

              Aside from being a prominent politico -- his hometown paper has dubbed him "the knight of the right" -- Pope is president and CFO of Variety Wholesalers, a company operating more than 500 discount retail stores in 14 states. Though not an energy firm, Variety does have an economic interest in avoiding gas taxes -- a proposal embraced catalogued* by the Center -- since its profits depend on importing and distributing foreign-made goods as cheaply as possible.
              http://southernstudies.org/facingsou...tack-on_13.asp
              “When fascism comes to America, it’ll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross” — Sinclair Lewis

              Comment


                #8
                Instead, Beach said, Congress could best address the financial crisis by making the tax reductions of 2001 and 2003 permanent, stopping dependence on demand-side stimulus, lowering the corporate profits tax, and reducing or eliminating taxes on capital gains and dividends.
                Ah yes, supply side economics and governmemt welfare for the rich. Just what we've had in this country for the last eight years. And the result? Record unemployment, worst in 25 years, and the greatest discrepency between the rich and the middle class/poor income in the last 100 years. Giving all the tax dollars to the rich does NOT produce more jobs and does not help the poor. This is the failed economic policy of Reagen and Bush - the result is clear. Look around.

                Testifying before the same committee in early October, Jerry Bramlett, president and CEO of BenefitStreet, Inc., an independent 401(k) plan administrator, said one of the best ways to ensure retirement security would be to have the U.S. Department of Labor develop educational materials for workers so they could make better investment decisions, not exchange equity investments in retirement accounts for Treasury bills, as proposed in the GSAs.
                Spoken like one who would benefit the most from private retirement investment. Talk about a case of self-interest. The fact is letting "workers" read "educational materials" to make better investment decisions is one of the most ridiculous comments I've heard. NO ONE can predict the stock or bond markets and time their retirement to coincide with a peak in prices. If PhD economists, professional traders, and even Warren Buffett (whose Berkshire stock is getting killed in this market cycle) cannot time their investments, how in hell is Joe (about to retire) Sixpack supposed to do this?

                There will be a generation of retirees who will watch their 401K's and IRA's shrink in value to near worthless - through no fault of their own. That is why the Democrats and the Congress created Social Security in the 1930's. The collapse of the markets was fresh in their memory. Today all the smart-ass right-wingers have forgotten history, or never learned it. Joe Sixpack will not be happy to see his retirement go down the tubes thanks to his private market investments. He may even have to become one of those retired McDonald's workers, and be called a "lazy jackass" by someone.
                Last edited by WhatMoney; 11-10-2008, 01:07 AM.
                “When fascism comes to America, it’ll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross” — Sinclair Lewis

                Comment


                  #9
                  WhatMoney... As you are a liberal and I am a conservative, you and I will have to agree to disagree. But I will give you a big f*** you for assuming that I am a "redneck from Arkansas".

                  I don't remember making any personal attacks on you, but if I somehow pissed in your cheerios, maybe you can call up the government and they can pass a bill that makes it illegal to voice opinions of opposition on the internet.

                  If anybody should be for free money from the government, free health care, free, free, free, free, it should be me and my wife. But frankly, I don't want the government involved in every aspect of my life. I have a firm belief that if you want to succeed (financially) bad enough, you can. Is it so bad that I have enough faith in the people of this great country to assume that if you really want to...you can? There is nothing holding anybody back, only themselves and a self imposed "I can't". Some of the most successful people in this country came from poverty and bad situations.

                  I suppose what seperates me from you is:

                  I believe that anybody can

                  You assume everybody can't and needs the governments help

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Whatmoney I always enjoy it when you put the facts out for everyone. I totally agree that this is a right wing fringe piece used to scare and divide. When will they learn that we are done with fear and intimidation!!! And Allavdj I have to say the post is interesting but if you call people "Jack Asses" prepare to be lambasted......it is how the internet works.
                    Filed!!04/23/2008[X] 341 5/27/2008[X]Converted to asset case 5/26/2008 [X]
                    DISCHARGE 08/12/2008[X]
                    Converted to NO Asset case 12/15/2008[X]
                    Closed 12/16/2008 [X]:yahoo::yahoo::yahoo:

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I didn't call any specific person a jackass. My reference was to people who are to lazy to get off their bum and do something with their life. Wantmoney on the other hand called me a redneck from Arkansas.

                      Also...here's what I said

                      "but this guy down the road who won't try any harder to work someplace besides McDonalds needs some of your money"

                      Notice the bold. My comments were directed at the millions of people who are happy living off the system and what the government gives them, be it free health care, free food, free whatever. It feels stupid having to explain this, but my comments were pretty clear. If you (nobody specific) don't want to try to better yourself, I don't want to be the one paying for your health care, retirement, food, etc.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Alladvj, I'm not sure you are a real redneck (but you are from Arkansas), so here is a test. If you can answer yes to at least two of the following, you are probably a redneck (thanks to Jeff Foxworthy):

                        1. You think "loading the dishwasher" means getting your wife drunk.

                        2. You ever cut your grass and found a car.

                        3. You own a home that is mobile and 5 cars that aren't.

                        4. You think the stock market has a fence around it.

                        5. Your stereo speakers used to belong to the Drive-in Theater.

                        6. Your boat has not left the drive-way in 15 years.

                        7. You own a homemade fur coat.

                        8. Chiggers are included on your list of top 5 hygiene concerns.

                        9. You burn your yard rather than mow it.

                        10. Your wife has ever said, "Come move this transmission so I can take a bath"

                        11. You read the Auto Trader with a highlight pen.

                        12. The Salvation Army declines your mattress.

                        13. You've ever raked leaves in your kitchen.

                        14. Birds are attracted to your beard.

                        15. Your wife's job requires her to wear an orange vest.

                        16. You were shooting pool when any of your kids were born.

                        17. You have the local taxidermist's number on speed dial.

                        18. You've ever hit a deer with your car...deliberately.

                        19. Your school fight song was "Dueling Banjos"

                        20. You think a chain saw is a musical instrument.

                        21. You've ever given rat traps as gifts.

                        22. You clean your fingernails with a stick.

                        23. Your coffee table used to be a cable spool.

                        24. You keep a can of RAID on the kitchen table.

                        25. Your wife can climb a tree faster than your cat.

                        26. Your mother has "ammo" on her Christmas list.

                        27. Every socket in your house breaks a fire code.

                        28. You've totaled every car you've ever owned.

                        29. There are more than five McDonald's bags in your car.

                        30. The Home Shopping operator recognizes your voice.

                        31. There has ever been crime-scene tape on your bathroom door.

                        32. You've ever been kicked out of the zoo for heckling the monkeys.

                        33. The taillight covers of your car are made of red tape.

                        34. You think a subdivision is part of a math problem.

                        35. You've ever bathed with flea and tick soap.

                        36. You think "taking out the trash" means taking your in-laws to a movie.

                        37. You have every episode of Hee-Haw on tape.

                        38. You've ever been involved in a custody fight over a hunting dog.

                        39. You’re considered an expert on worm beds.

                        40. Your kids take a siphon hose to "Show and Tell"

                        41. The dog catcher calls for a backup unit when visiting your house.

                        42. You've ever bought a used cap.

                        43. Your CB antenna is a danger to low-flying planes.

                        44. You pick your teeth….. from a catalog.

                        45. You've ever financed a tattoo.

                        46. You've ever stolen toilet paper.

                        47. You think a hot tub is a stolen bathroom fixture.

                        48. People hear your car a long time before they see it.

                        49. The gas pedal on your car is shaped like a bare foot.

                        50. You prefer car keys to Q-tips.

                        51. You take a fishing pole into Sea World.

                        52. You think a turtleneck is key ingredient for soup.

                        53. You've ever stood in line to have your picture taken with a freak of nature.

                        54. You think the French Riviera is foreign car.

                        55. You go to a stock car race and don't need a program.

                        56. You've ever filled your deer tag on the golf course.

                        57. You have ever used lard in bed.

                        58. You own more than 3 shirts with cut off sleeves.

                        59. You have ever spray-painted your girlfriends name on an overpass.

                        60. Your lifetime goal is to own a fireworks stand.

                        61. Someone asks to see your ID and you show them your belt buckle.

                        62. The primary color of your car is Bondo.

                        63. Directions to your house include "Turn off the paved road"

                        64. Your dog and your wallet are both on a chain.

                        65. You owe the taxidermist more than your annual income.

                        66. You ever lost a tooth opening a beer bottle.

                        67. Jack Daniels makes you list of most admired people.

                        68. Your wife's hairdo has ever been ruined by a ceiling fan.

                        69. You see no need to stop at a rest stop 'cause you have an empty milk jug.

                        70. You consider the fifth grade your senior year.

                        71. You have a rag for a gas cap (on a car that doesn’t run).

                        72. The dog can't watch you eat without gagging.

                        73. You have a hefty bag where the window of your car should be.

                        74. You have ever bar-b-qued Spam on the grill.

                        75. Your brother-in-law is also your uncle.

                        76. Redman Chewing Tobacco sends you a Christmas card.

                        77. You bought a VCR because wrestling comes on while you're at work.

                        78. Your dad walks you to school because you're in the same grade.

                        79. You view the next family reunion as a chance to meet girls.

                        80. Your wife has a beer belly and you find it attractive.

                        81. Your front porch collapses and kills more than five dogs.

                        82. The main course at potluck dinners is road kill.

                        83. Your other truck is made by John Deere.

                        84. You think suspenders are a type of shirt.

                        85. Going to the bathroom at night involves shoes and a flashlight.

                        86. You keep a spit cup on the ironing board.

                        87. You ever got too drunk to fish.

                        88. More than one living relative is named after a civil war general.

                        89. Your home has more miles on it than your car.

                        90. You think that potted meat on a saltine is an hors d'ouerve.

                        91. There is a stuffed possum anywhere in your house.

                        92. You consider a six-pack and a bug-zapper high-quality entertainment.

                        93. Fewer than half of your cars run.

                        94. Your mother doesn't remove the Marlboro from her lips before telling the State Trooper to kiss her ass.

                        95. You honestly think that women are turned on by animal noises and seductive tongue gestures.

                        96. You stand under the mistletoe at Christmas and wait for Granny and cousin Bobby-Sue to walk by.

                        97. Your family tree doesn't have any branches.

                        98. Your mother has been involved in a fistfight at a high school sports event.

                        99. The best way to keep things cold is to leave'em in the shade.

                        100. The neighbors started a petition over your Christmas lights.

                        101. You have refused to watch the Academy Awards since "Smokey and the Bandit" was snubbed for best picture.

                        102. The only condiment on your dining room table is the economy size bottle of ketchup.

                        103. The rear tires on your car are at least twice as wide as the front ones.

                        104. You consider "Outdoor Life" deep reading.

                        105. You prominently display a gift you bought at Graceland.

                        106. You use the term `over yonder' more than once a month.

                        107. The diploma hanging in your den contains the words "Trucking Institute"

                        108. You've ever worn a tube top to a wedding.

                        109. Your favorite Christmas present, was a painting on black velvet.

                        110. You think that Dom Perignon is a mafia leader.

                        111. The most commonly heard phrase at your family reunion is "What the hell are you looking at, Shithead?"

                        112. You think that beef jerky and Moon Pies are two of the major food groups.

                        113. You think that Campho-Phenique is a miracle drug.

                        114. The first words out of your mouth every time you see friends are "Howdy!" "HEY!" or "How Y'all Doin'?"

                        115. You have more than two brothers named Bubba or Junior.

                        116. Your father encourages you to quit school because Larry has an opening on the lube rack.

                        117. You think a Volvo is part of a woman's anatomy.

                        118. You think that the Styrofoam cooler is the greatest invention of all time.

                        119. You had to remove a toothpick for wedding pictures.

                        120. You've ever used a weed eater indoors.

                        121. You have to go outside to get something out of the 'fridge.

                        122. Your richest relative invites you over to his new home to help him remove the wheels and skirt.

                        123. You've ever financed a tattoo.

                        124. Your idea of a 7 course meal is a bucket of KFC and a six-pack.

                        125. You go to a Tupperware party for a haircut.

                        126. Your Junior/Senior Prom had a Daycare.

                        127. Your kids are going hungry tonight because you just had to have those Yosemite Sam mud flaps.

                        128. You won't stop at a rest area if you have an empty beer can in the car.

                        129. You have a very special baseball cap, just for formal occasions.

                        130. You have to scratch your sister’s name out of the message: "for a good time call . . .”, because you feel guilty about putting it there.

                        131. You are still holding on to Confederate money because you think the South will rise again.

                        132. You consider pork and beans to be a gourmet food.

                        133. You have to go down to the creek to take a bath.

                        134. You participate in the "who can spit tobacco the farthest contest."

                        135. You roll you hair with soup cans and wash it once a year.

                        136. You consider a three piece suit to be: a pair of overalls, a plaid flannel shit and thermal underwear.

                        137. There is a sheet hanging in your closet and a gun rack hanging in your truck.

                        138. You think the mountain men in Deliverance were just "misunderstood" .

                        139. You've ever made change in the offering plate.

                        140. You consider a good tan to be the back of your neck and the left arm below the shirt sleeve.

                        141. You own at least 20 baseball hats.

                        142. You know of at least six different ways to bend the bill of a baseball hat.

                        143. You can change the oil in your truck without ducking your head.

                        144. When you run out of gas, you put gin in the gas tank!

                        145. Your biggest ambition in live is to "git thet big'ole coon. The one what hangs 'round over yonder, back'ah bubba's barn"

                        146. Three quarters of the clothes you own have LOGOS on them.

                        147. When you leave your house, you are followed by federal agents of the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms, and the only thing you worry about is if you can loose them or not.

                        148. Your house doesn't have curtains, but your truck does.

                        149. You have started a petition to change the National Anthem to "Georgia on My Mind"

                        150. You call your boss "Buddy", on a regular basis.

                        151. You consider your license plate personalized because your dad made it in prison.

                        152. You have been fired from a construction job because of your appearance.

                        153. You need one more hole punched in your card to get a freebie at the House of Tattoos.

                        154. You need an estimate from your barber before you get a haircut.

                        155. After making love you ask your date to roll down the window.

                        156. The biggest fashion risk you take is which plaid you'll wear to the 4-H Fair.

                        157. You have flowers planted in a bathroom appliance in your front yard.

                        158. Someone in your family says "Cum'n heer an' lookit this afore I flush it"

                        159. Your wife weighs more then your refrigerator.

                        160. When you see a sign that says "Say No To Crack," it reminds you to pull your jeans up.

                        161. You go Christmas shopping for your mom, sister, and girlfriend, and you only need to buy one gift.

                        162. Your gene pool doesn't have a "deep end"

                        163. "Honey? Are the lights out? Is the door locked? Is the parking brake set?" is what you hear right before you and your wife/girl make love.

                        164. Your `huntin dawg' cost more than the truck you drive him around in.

                        165. You'd rather catch bass than get some (if you can't guess...)

                        166. You have a Hefty bag for a Car/Truck convertible top.

                        167. Your belt buckle weighs more than three pounds.

                        168. You think that safe sex is a padded headboard on the waterbed.

                        169. You have an Elvis Jell-O mold.

                        170. You own more cowboy boots than sneakers.

                        171. You've been to a funeral and there were more pick-ups than cars.

                        172. You have a picture of Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, or Elvis over your fireplace.

                        173. You just bought an 8-track player to put in your car.

                        174. There are four or more cars up on blocks in the front yard.

                        175. The theme song at your high school prom was “Friends in Low Places” .

                        176. Its Easier to spray weed killer on your lawn than mow it.

                        177. You think that John Deere Green, Ford Blue, and Primer Gray are the three of the primary colors.

                        178. You've ever climbed a water tower with a bucket of paint to defend your sister's honor.

                        179. You idea of talking during sex is "Ain't no cars coming, baby!"

                        180. Your vehicle has a two-tone paint job--primer red and primer gray.

                        181. The tobacco chewers in your family aren't just men.

                        182. Yer mom calls ya over t'help, cause she has a flat tire...on her house.

                        183. The ASPCA raids yer kitchen.

                        184. Foreplay consists of slipping off her saddle.

                        185. Ya can't get married to yer sweetheart ‘cause there’s a law against it.

                        186. Ya celebrate Groundhog Day (cause ya believe in it!!)

                        187. You've been on TV more than 5 times describing the sound of a tornado.

                        188. You fish in your above-ground pool, especially if you catch something!

                        189. Your beer can collection is considered a tourist attraction in your home town.

                        190. If you wake up with both a black eye and a hickey.

                        191. Getting a package from your post office requires a full tank of gas in the truck.

                        192. "Buck Naked Line Dancing" isn't a videotape, it's "Ladies Night" at the local bar.

                        193. Your wife wants to stop at the gas station to see if they've got the new Darrell Waltrip Budweiser wall clock.

                        194. You dated your daddy's current wife in high school.

                        195. You're moved to tears every time you hear Dolly Parton singing "I Will Always Love You"

                        196. You've ever parked a Camaro in a tree.

                        197. Exxon and Conoco have offered you royalties for your hair.

                        198. Your dad is also your favorite uncle.

                        199. The most serious loss from the earthquake was your Conway Twitty record collection (your insurance man is one too if he pays you for it)

                        200. You actually made a pyramid of cans in the pale moonlight with Alan Jackson.

                        201. You have spent more on your pickup truck than on your education.

                        202. You can tell your age by the number of rings in the bathtub.

                        203. Your mom gives you tips on how to sneak booze into sporting events.

                        204. The blue book value of your truck goes up and down depending on how much gas it has in it.

                        205. Your classes at school were cancelled because the path to the restroom was flooded.

                        206. On your job application under "SEX" you put "As often as possible"

                        207. During your senior year you and your mother had homeroom together.

                        208. You're a “light” beer drinker, because you start drinking when it gets light.

                        209. On your first date you had to ask your Dad to borrow the keys to the tractor.

                        210. Your parakeet knows the phrase "Open up, Police!”

                        211. You saved lots of money on your honeymoon by going deer hunting.

                        212. In tough situations you ask yourself, "What would Curly do?”

                        213. Taking your wife on a cruise means circling the Dairy Queen.

                        214. You think the last words to the Star Spangled Banner are "Gentlemen, start your engines"

                        215. Your child's first words are "Attention K-Mart shoppers”

                        216. Your wife's best pair of shoes is steel-toed Red Wings.

                        217. You have a color coordinating rope that ties down your car hood.

                        218. You bring your dog to work with you.

                        219. You replace a flat tire on your truck with a tire from your house.

                        220. You've ever put a six-pack in a casket right before they closed it.

                        221. Your family's No. 1 enemy is revenuers.

                        222. Your belt buckle doubles as a serving platter.

                        223. You use lava soap more than three times a day.

                        224. You wear cowboy boots with Bermuda shorts.

                        225. You have a hook in your shower to hang your hat on.

                        226. You buy your wife tube socks at the flea market.

                        227. You consider orange peels left on the coffee table as potpourri.

                        228. You can't take a bath because beer is iced down in your tub.

                        229. Your kitchen doubles as a bait store.

                        230. You've ever picked up a woman in a convenience store.

                        231. You throw a beer can out the truck window and your wife shoots it.

                        232. You've ever fed your date french fries in a Denny's.

                        233. Going to the laundromat means cleaning out the back of the truck.

                        234. Your family reunion features a chewing tobacco spit-off.

                        235. You come home from the garbage dump with more than you went with.
                        Last edited by WhatMoney; 11-10-2008, 02:17 PM.
                        “When fascism comes to America, it’ll be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross” — Sinclair Lewis

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I can assure you that I am FAR from a redneck. And no, I cannot answer yes to any of those (thank goodness)

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by allavdj View Post

                            Notice the bold. My comments were directed at the millions of people who are happy living off the system and what the government gives them, be it free health care, free food, free whatever. It feels stupid having to explain this, but my comments were pretty clear. If you (nobody specific) don't want to try to better yourself, I don't want to be the one paying for your health care, retirement, food, etc.
                            I believe that anybody can

                            You assume everybody can't and needs the governments help
                            So, where do the victims of society come into play in all of this?

                            I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the religious right complain about this. That is the basic dogma of the far right wing conservative agenda. Dont forget the 700 billion of FREE money that just went to the richest people in the land and all of the other billions of dollars that are handed out for FREE to the richest companies who have failed.

                            So, why is it bad when the millions of poorest folks living off the system are given a few thousand dollars & cheap government cheese for free? but it is ok & good when the millions of richest folks living off the system get millions & billions of dollars in bailouts for free? Who exactly is paying for that? It aint the Regans, Pelosi's & Bushes.

                            As for health care, if you are paying your own health insurance, then you are automatically also paying for others insurance because that is how insurance works. If it were affordable, then more people could have it because there would be more people pitching into it. Same idea goes for social security as they would be in hopes that more people will be dead before they ever get to collect. Except now people are living longer...OOPS

                            Nothing better than a thread to bring out the best of social attitudes

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by JRScott View Post

                              I agree with allavdj, I see no reason to redistribute wealth. It rewards slothfulness. It punishes hard work. That's what's wrong with our system and why we have an increasing number of high school drop outs nationwide. There is no incentive for them to excel themselves because the government will take care of them no matter how badly they do, and that's wrong.

                              Kids today do not want to do hard work because they were raised to be lazy & never learned the value of a dollar. Sit around and play computer games for hours unending, jump on the trampoline, ride bikes, bang on drums, chit chat on phones, skateboard...but take out garbage? shovel snow? mow the grass? help dad repair the house? do work to buy a car? why should they do work when mom & dad will buy it for them. Why do work at 18 when they can play at college for 6 years of parties.

                              A lot of us were working part time by age 15 for less than min. wage so we could have a car by graduation and LEARNED that to succeed we have to work. Most american kids today at 15 aren't going to do squat because they are 'entitled' to everything, living in an anti-social, text/virtual world that cannot deal with reality in hopes of some eternal passive income dream.

                              I blame bad parenting skills more than government for the slothfulness. I mean what do you expect after 20 years of boys & girls wearing pants that fall down their behinds every step they take because they are 5 sizes too big? They would spend 80% of the work week just pulling up their pants.

                              Then you have those in fairytale world who think house flipping is going to support them. That is what happens when you have more people laying around doing nothing and few putting their shoulders to the wheel.

                              Where I blame government is when reganomics started during the 80's and all of our good factory & industry jobs were given to other countries thru fair trade. Now all we have in it's place is a bunch of china & india retail stores and cheap over priced electronic gadgets.

                              I feel there are areas that government should have control over but NOT only democrats and republicans because they have a way of calmly lying to keep the masses sleeping in the rocking chair, right where they want them.

                              Comment

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