Uncle Sam Wants You(r 401k retirement plan)

[Bandit]

The current retirement system, Ghilarducci said, “exacerbates income and wealth inequalities” because tax breaks for voluntary retirement accounts are “skewed to the wealthy because it is easier for them to save, and because they receive bigger tax breaks when they do.”

Lauding GRAs as a way to effectively increase retirement savings, Ghilarducci wrote that savings incentives are unequal for rich and poor families because tax deferrals “provide a much larger ‘carrot’ to wealthy families than to middle-class families — and none whatsoever for families too poor to owe taxes.”

...and I have my treasure chest buried on an undiscovered Island in the caribbean...loaded with gold and dark rum

[allavdj]

So, where do the victims of society come into play in all of this?

I cannot tell you how many times I have heard the religious right complain about this. That is the basic dogma of the far right wing conservative agenda. Dont forget the 700 billion of FREE money that just went to the richest people in the land and all of the other billions of dollars that are handed out for FREE to the richest companies who have failed.

So, why is it bad when the millions of poorest folks living off the system are given a few thousand dollars & cheap government cheese for free? but it is ok & good when the millions of richest folks living off the system get millions & billions of dollars in bailouts for free? Who exactly is paying for that? It aint the Regans, Pelosi's & Bushes.

As for health care, if you are paying your own health insurance, then you are automatically also paying for others insurance because that is how insurance works. If it were affordable, then more people could have it because there would be more people pitching into it. Same idea goes for social security as they would be in hopes that more people will be dead before they ever get to collect. Except now people are living longer...OOPS

Nothing better than a thread to bring out the best of social attitudes

I don't remember saying anything about liking the bailouts or the fact that the system is abused by the rich and poor alike. I think our health care and insurance system is screwed up beyond recognition.

Secondly, I think the banks should have been allowed to fail, just like I think GM, Ford, AIG, etc should get off the government dole and either fix the underlying problems or fail.

And before I get attacked for saying GM should be allowed to fail even though they employ a bazillion people and the entire world economy will fail if the feds don't prop up their failing business model...if somebody sees a viable market for making cars in this country, somebody will buy off those assets and make a company that works. If nobody buys off those assets, if nobody sees a potential to make a car manufacturer that makes money...that should tell you something.

[banca rotta]

Currently, 401(k) plans allow Americans to invest pretax money and their employers match up to a defined percentage, which not only increases workers’ retirement savings but also reduces their annual income tax. The balances are fully inheritable, subject to income tax, meaning workers pass on their wealth to their heirs, unlike Social Security. Even when they leave an employer and go to one that doesn’t offer a 401(k) or pension, workers can transfer their balances to a qualified IRA.


Losing the tax deduction (while I don't agree with it) isn't the worst thing in the world since it will solve the new problem. That is all the boomers being forced to withdraw a large portion of their savings at 70 and 1/2 and paying a fortune in mandatory taxes. This will also cause the markets to nose dive even worse then today in the next 10 to 20 years. A Roth 401k/IRA will prevent any taxes from mandatory withdrawl.

The govt should NOT control this though.

[Bandit]

I don't remember saying anything about liking the bailouts or the fact that the system is abused by the rich and poor alike. I think our health care and insurance system is screwed up beyond recognition.

Secondly, I think the banks should have been allowed to fail, just like I think GM, Ford, AIG, etc should get off the government dole and either fix the underlying problems or fail.

And before I get attacked for saying GM should be allowed to fail even though they employ a bazillion people and the entire world economy will fail if the feds don't prop up their failing business model...if somebody sees a viable market for making cars in this country, somebody will buy off those assets and make a company that works. If nobody buys off those assets, if nobody sees a potential to make a car manufacturer that makes money...that should tell you something.

Ok then. We are not that far apart. You raise a good point there with GM. But, why would people buy from GM when they can buy a toyota or honda and get twice the mpg. Someone here at work said last week GM had losses of like 45% this year (dont quote me). This goes back to the Clinton era when he rufused to drill for oil to amp up our emergency fuel sources & seek alternative fuels.

It makes one wonder how nice it would be if we could have days when GM thrived...so government & the wealthy can always send all the GM factory work to china and india to survive while...you know.... That seems to be the trendy american thing to do for the last 3 decades.

[Bandit]

Losing the tax deduction (while I don't agree with it) isn't the worst thing in the world since it will solve the new problem. That is all the boomers being forced to withdraw a large portion of their savings at 70 and 1/2 and paying a fortune in mandatory taxes. This will also cause the markets to nose dive even worse then today in the next 10 to 20 years. A Roth 401k/IRA will prevent any taxes from mandatory withdrawl.

The govt should NOT control this though.

That is pretty much all the united states government ever does any more, is keep pushing the problems down the road until we are completely sold out and at a loss of everything. I believe they are doing this on purpose to even & level out all the peoples of all countries so that no one can ever make war with any global governments power.

[lrprn]

I believe that anybody can.

allavdj, please read "Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting by in America" (2001) by Barbara Ehrenreich - http://www.amazon.com/Nickel-Dimed-N.../dp/0805063897

"...Determined to find out how anyone could make ends meet on $7 an hour, she left behind her middle class life as a journalist except for $1000 in start-up funds, a car and her laptop computer to try to sustain herself as a low-skilled worker for a month at a time. In 1999 and 2000, Ehrenreich worked as a waitress in Key West, Fla., as a cleaning woman and a nursing home aide in Portland, Maine, and in a Wal-Mart in Minneapolis, Minn. During the application process, she faced routine drug tests and spurious "personality tests"; once on the job, she endured constant surveillance and numbing harangues over infractions like serving a second roll and butter. Beset by transportation costs and high rents, she learned the tricks of the trade from her co-workers, some of whom sleep in their cars, and many of whom work when they're vexed by arthritis, back pain or worse, yet still manage small gestures of kindness. Despite the advantages of her race, education, good health and lack of children, Ehrenreich's income barely covered her month's expenses in only one instance, when she worked seven days a week at two jobs (one of which provided free meals) during the off-season in a vacation town. ...she gives readers pause about those caught in the economy's undertow, even in good times."

The world you remember where anyone who wants to work hard can succeed simply does not exist any longer for large groups of our population. And it's much, much worse out there economically now than it was seven years ago when this book was published.

-

[fltoo]

What a crock! So wrong. People reinvent themselves. Jobs are lost, invented and reinvented. View the thread here on "are you going to lose your job" and see the posts where people/small companies are changing to the times.

As I said in another thread, stop raining on our youth's future!

Teach new skill sets, instill an entrepreneurial spirit, educate, provide a role model, provide career counseling. Do anything but rain on the youth's future.

Bandit is right about parenting today. Time to step up to the plate and start parenting our kids, which includes teaching them to think for themselves.

Why are we so polarized for our kids to see? Is it because we watch too much garbage on CNN and Fox news and forgot how to think? I am a conservative. I believe in small government, no bail outs, no national health plan. I am a liberal. I believe in a woman's right to choose, that anyone can get married and form a legal union, that we need programs to feed, educate, and help the needy. We have lost all common sense and we look to blame, the government, Bush, the economy...We voted in a messiah to show us the way. Look in the mirror. We have allowed the government to interfere in people's lives. We have allowed people to judge and interfere in people's lives.

I have to stop here, because I could write pages and pages. Nothing irks me more than a parent, the news, the government, the naysayers setting our youth up for failure with this defeatist attitude instead of teaching personal responsibility and respect for all.

[JRScott]

Kids today do not want to do hard work because they were raised to be lazy & never learned the value of a dollar. Sit around and play computer games for hours unending, jump on the trampoline, ride bikes, bang on drums, chit chat on phones, skateboard...but take out garbage? shovel snow? mow the grass? help dad repair the house? do work to buy a car? why should they do work when mom & dad will buy it for them. Why do work at 18 when they can play at college for 6 years of parties.

A lot of us were working part time by age 15 for less than min. wage so we could have a car by graduation and LEARNED that to succeed we have to work. Most american kids today at 15 aren't going to do squat because they are 'entitled' to everything, living in an anti-social, text/virtual world that cannot deal with reality in hopes of some eternal passive income dream.

I blame bad parenting skills more than government for the slothfulness. I mean what do you expect after 20 years of boys & girls wearing pants that fall down their behinds every step they take because they are 5 sizes too big? They would spend 80% of the work week just pulling up their pants.

Then you have those in fairytale world who think house flipping is going to support them. That is what happens when you have more people laying around doing nothing and few putting their shoulders to the wheel.

Where I blame government is when reganomics started during the 80's and all of our good factory & industry jobs were given to other countries thru fair trade. Now all we have in it's place is a bunch of china & india retail stores and cheap over priced electronic gadgets.

I feel there are areas that government should have control over but NOT only democrats and republicans because they have a way of calmly lying to keep the masses sleeping in the rocking chair, right where they want them.

I agree that parents share in the blame. The loss of the traditional family structure is a cause for several ills in our society. Partly laws are to blame for this. Today it is far harder to use negative reinforcement as a means of punishment than it was 30 years ago. While some parents did take such things to far, and surely crossed the line, we've allowed the laws to swing to far in the opposite direction providing far to much protection to the point many parents are afraid to even punish children.

Before the times of the two income family we had mostly the male of the home working at a job to provide income. The woman generally stayed home with the children helping to teach and raise them. When this was the primary focus of the family we had far fewer instances of drug abuse, teen violence, gang related activities and other social ills we face today.

That's the key that no politician wants to touch. If we are to restore our great nation to its golden era we must realize that it first must start in the home. Without that early age education provided by loving mothers children are far more apt to run astray. It is not something that schools or church can make up for as the family is the building block of society. Without a strong family setting it is almost impossible for the schools or churches to provide enough reinforcement for these young people to be successful.

We as a society need to learn we can do with less. We also need to move to an idea that each home should only need 1 income, not 2. This might mean raising the wages of the one income earner sufficiently that the other no longer has to work. It also should mean cut backs in what are really not essential to living expenses.

Until we can build strong families again, our nation is in trouble.

[allavdj]

What a crock! So wrong. People reinvent themselves. Jobs are lost, invented and reinvented. View the thread here on "are you going to lose your job" and see the posts where people/small companies are changing to the times.

As I said in another thread, stop raining on our youth's future!

Teach new skill sets, instill an entrepreneurial spirit, educate, provide a role model, provide career counseling. Do anything but rain on the youth's future.

Bandit is right about parenting today. Time to step up to the plate and start parenting our kids, which includes teaching them to think for themselves.

Why are we so polarized for our kids to see? Is it because we watch too much garbage on CNN and Fox news and forgot how to think? I am a conservative. I believe in small government, no bail outs, no national health plan. I am a liberal. I believe in a woman's right to choose, that anyone can get married and form a legal union, that we need programs to feed, educate, and help the needy. We have lost all common sense and we look to blame, the government, Bush, the economy...We voted in a messiah to show us the way. Look in the mirror. We have allowed the government to interfere in people's lives. We have allowed people to judge and interfere in people's lives.

I have to stop here, because I could write pages and pages. Nothing irks me more than a parent, the news, the government, the naysayers setting our youth up for failure with this defeatist attitude instead of teaching personal responsibility and respect for all.

A-freakin-men...Stop I can'ting and get out there and DO. And for the record...I'm 29, self employed, pretty poor at the moment, and could really use some government handouts, but my parents instilled in me the value of hard work and doing, I wasn't allowed to say "I can't", unless you have some sort of physical or mental handicap that prevents you from doing something, you can...you just don't want to bad enough.

Everybody has it within themselves to improve their station in life, it all boils down to how bad do you want it.

[Bandit]

Until we can build strong families again, our nation is in trouble.

Bandit is right about parenting today. Time to step up to the plate and start parenting our kids, which includes teaching them to think for themselves.

This is the truth and family values rarely exist. People are so divided that 'family' does not exist. If people cannot share, get along and work together as a family to succeed they will never make a world progress with the individual doctrine in business.

You ask a kid a question about how is school? and they look at you like "WHY DONT YOU TEXT ME" & "I dont want you to ask me questions" or "I dont know what you are talking about."
It is weird.

I know there are still good parents out there but there are some real crappy- I dont care ones that have raised a bunch of waste to pass down more waste & I surely wont be doing business with them if I can help it.

I ask my friend, how can you let your 14 year old son sit there for 13 hours every day all summer long and do nothing but play video games?
Then she wonders why her 16 year old daughter has already been busted for a DUI and has to go to court. A DUI at 16? and she is a straight A+ student.
I don't get it.

How can any kid call their mother a bit**?

I watched a mother & son in the checkout line at Target last week, her little son kicked his mother HARD with full force right in her legs at least 10 times and kicked the checkout stand screaming and kussing at his mom saying you are mean, shaking his fist... I hate you, I will kill you and all the 4 letter words...
He was no older than 7 & all because she would not give in to buying him a toy. The kid kind of scared me because of the severe violence & not a drop of respect for anyone or anything around him.

The mom acted like that was normal & good behavior & never said a word or tired to halt him.

[arkienurse]

I ask my friend, how can you let your 14 year old son sit there for 13 hours

I watched a mother & son in the checkout line at Target last week, her little son kicked his mother HARD with full force right in her legs at least 10 times and kicked the checkout stand screaming and kussing at his mom saying you are mean, shaking his fist... I hate you, I will kill you and all the 4 letter words...
He was no older than 7 & all because she would not give in to buying him a toy. The kid kind of scared me because of the severe violence & not a drop of respect for anyone or anything around him.

The mom acted like that was normal & good behavior & never said a word or tired to halt him.

I don't understand this either. Well yes, I do, in a way. Mom probably has been working since the kid was a few weeks old. Daycare just does time out or calls the parents when they get out of control. By the time mom gets home, she is probably so tired that it is easier to let the kid do what he wants than to take the time to actually parent. And she has probably learned to tune it out to the point that she didn't even really notice what so horrified you. BTDT myself. I came to that realization myself a few years ago and took back over a more active role in my children's lives. My 5 yr old is a hyper bundle of getting into trouble for running in the house, or interrupting conversations. But she knows better than to hit me, or call me names. She knows that it would result in automatic, immediate swat on the butt and a taking away of priveledges such as playing outside with my grandson or watching television.

[Bandit]

I don't understand this either. Well yes, I do, in a way. Mom probably has been working since the kid was a few weeks old. Daycare just does time out or calls the parents when they get out of control. By the time mom gets home, she is probably so tired that it is easier to let the kid do what he wants than to take the time to actually parent. And she has probably learned to tune it out to the point that she didn't even really notice what so horrified you. BTDT myself. I came to that realization myself a few years ago and took back over a more active role in my children's lives. My 5 yr old is a hyper bundle of getting into trouble for running in the house, or interrupting conversations. But she knows better than to hit me, or call me names. She knows that it would result in automatic, immediate swat on the butt and a taking away of priveledges such as playing outside with my grandson or watching television.

if that kid at Target had come over to kick me in the legs me I would have knocked him down on his butt. There was a kid who did that to me one time at the Space Center in florida. I could not believe it & the parents stood there & let their nine year old kick me in the shins as if it was normal to let their kid kick perfect strangers in the legs...talk about back woods hicks with no parenting skills!! I took my hand and pushed his head right down to the ground until he was laying on the ground & he kept trying to kick me I pushed him right back down. I went straight to customer relations and they were so stupid they followed me there with their brat son kicking me. They were all told to leave the park. I was pissed!

Then the law can't figure out why we have 8 & 10 year olds to teenagers murdering their parents.

I had a mean cousin when we were young who one day decided he would bite my dad on the inner thigh. My dad let him get away with it 4 times and only repromanded him. My cousin kept biting him in the same place on the leg! My dads leg was bleeding, he layed into him with the belt & whipped the crap out of him after the 4th bite.

BUt running in the house & interrupting conversations is something all kids do at that age & learn that in order to get through life, respect has to be met because when they go in someone elses house & in public places it wont be tolerated.

[Bandit]

Not sure how I got off topic from 401Ks to nightmare brat kids who need to be thrown into jail.

Sorry about that!

[BKOnce]

Also on the news before:

1. Son killed mon after mom refused to give him money$ to buy engagement ring for his Gf, or pay money for the breast enlargement surgery for her?? (I forgot which is?, must be either one of those..LOL). The GF also invovled in the killing scheme.

2. After Grand-mother died, son & mom chopped grand-mother into small pieces, let's us pretend to cook-out this B-B-Q meat with sauces & flavored seasonings,... and bury evidence in the backyard (so neighbors don't know WTF). Police later found out why ??-->> They are unemployed suckers on grand-mom's income, and they just want to keep those nice $600 SSI check (Social Security) & Food stamps coming every month (without letting Government know she had died). In the end, they both go to jail, and must pay back Uncle Sam $$ + interests for screwing with Bush's ass !! LOL

Today, what kind of American environment (economy or education) that we are getting into guys??.. I'm scared my children will shoot me later for inheritance...LOL .. We have become third-word population.

[arkienurse]

Not sure how I got off topic from 401Ks to nightmare brat kids who need to be thrown into jail.

Sorry about that!

Is ok. I enjoyed the diversion.

Seems there are only a few of us actually worried about a gvt takeover of our hard earned 401ks. I have actually upped my deductions right now. And believe that in the long run it will do better than the guaranteed 3% rate of return they are promising in these GRAs. I want my husband or children to be able to inherit ALL of whatever I put in my 401k, not just half if I die before using it, or just the part I put in if I die after starting withdrawals. My family is making the sacrifice along with me in order for that 401k account to be building up, it should belong to them when I am gone. I don't want the government to take care of every aspect of my life. That is why God gave me free will and a thinking brain, so I could do it myself and learn from my mistakes. I went to school to get where I am now. For RN school, I didn't eve qualify for but one semester of student loans. I worked evenings and 2 16 hr shifts on the weekends to help pay the bills. With 4 kids and a husband to take care of on the side. Then I look at the village idiots next door. Both are 30 years old and drawing SS disability. He has back problems, she has headaches. They have no ambitions to get any schooling for jobs they could do while working around their problems. They have enough money coming in right not to cover their needs so why should they? They will never be able to save any money for their retirement. And I resent like Hell that someone has an idea to take any of MY retirement money to take care of them in their later years.