Senate to Middle Class: Drop Dead ...a message from Michael Moore

[Bandit]

Two excellent posts. I particularly liked the above points.

Most other people have realized that excluding the sale of narcotics, which sounds like what another poster is suggesting, you need to re-skill, get an education or work for yourself. America is an entrepreneurial country and a great example of this is Henry Fords first car. It is wrong for anyone to believe they should have a job for life and then blame it on the rich because the industry and world has changed.

if you are refering to me about the sale of narcotics, please point out where I said that.

Heny Ford did not have government breathing down his back the way it is today. They did not even have an IRS tax system.

[shabam]

I never said the broom pusher would make the same as the designer, so do not put words into my mouth.

Freemarket did not decide that. The politicians & eltists decided it when they sold their country to foreigners.
Even if you pay them twice or the minimum, They still cannot make ends meet, pay for insurance & raise a family today.

Just look at what is overseas & the USA is doing the same thing & is headed for the same lame duck third world conditions. The signs are everywhere.

The free market did decide. Five of the top ten vehicles sold in 2008 are produced by Asian manufacturers which are built right here in America. This number is rising yearly. Therefore these companies must be doing something right.

What many with a pro-union mentality fail to grasp is that everyone is free to re-skill, further their education or start their own business. In one sense yes you are right. There is no future working for companies like the big three auto. So what this means is that it is up to each individual and not the collective union to travel down one of the three paths. The real issue is that certain people do not want to change. They 'wanna do what they done' for 20 or 30 years. Unfortunately this is no longer an option.

If the minimum wage, healthcare, trade agreements and retirement is the issue, people need to speak up to their local congress representatives. These sort of issue can only be sorted out at that level.

[shabam]

at 50 cents a week in china & mexico the working class has savings?

they do not clean up their mess overseas.

how are they teaching us a lesson again?

Rehashing a comment by another poster, people from overseas are buying up property where they live. Therefore these people are probably good with their money and are clearly not making 50 cents a week as you state. To the contrary many of these people come from countries which have progressed with the times and moved into highly skilled fields, for example the Japanese.

[Bandit]

The free market did decide. Five of the top ten vehicles sold in 2008 are produced by Asian manufacturers which are built right here in America. This number is rising yearly. Therefore these companies must be doing something right.

What many with a pro-union mentality fail to grasp is that everyone is free to re-skill, further their education or start their own business. In one sense yes you are right. There is no future working for companies like the big three auto. So what this means is that it is up to each individual and not the collective union to travel down one of the three paths. The real issue is that certain people do not want to change. They 'wanna do what they done' for 20 or 30 years. Unfortunately this is no longer an option.

If the minimum wage, healthcare, trade agreements and retirement is the issue, people need to speak up to their local congress representatives. These sort of issue can only be sorted out at that level.

I do not care either way about the union or no union. You are the one who wants to destroy it & all I do is tell you, you are wrong for blaming all the problems on unions.

So what you mean is, talk the local congressman, who is as crooked as they get, so they can do nothing. Nothing of the sort will ever be sorted out at that level when min wage can stay 3.35 for 8 years while inflation soars, there is a problem with the system. That system is broken.

& since there is no future for the big 3 & because of the way the auto industry is so tied to gether, you had better believe these other auto companies will also suffer big time when they go down.

The freemarket did not decide. It was the elitists & politiicans who decided the direction well over 30 years ago.

[Bandit]

Rehashing a comment by another poster, people from overseas are buying up property where they live. Therefore these people are probably good with their money and are clearly not making 50 cents a week as you state. To the contrary many of these people come from countries which have progressed with the times and moved into highly skilled fields, for example the Japanese.

Why dont you tell about the working conditions. If it is so great then why do people think going to the uSA is the best place to work.

you never tell the whole truth about what is going on overseas.

The elitists from overseas are also buying up the USA land because the USA is broke.

[shabam]

if you are refering to me about the sale of narcotics, please point out where I said that.

Heny Ford did not have government breathing down his back the way it is today. They did not even have an IRS tax system.

There are lots of entrepreneurs throughout this country. They are just not located in the rust belts anymore.

In relation to another thread where we discussed the Midwest pro-union culture, I based that on experience with ex union workers from there who tend to want to argue doing something rather than actually doing what they are told by a superior. This gives me a good idea of their background and what they were allowed to pull off under a union. They have all since been fired as that sort of attitude does not work well over here.

[Bandit]

There are lots of entrepreneurs throughout this country. They are just not located in the rust belts anymore.

In relation to another thread where we discussed the Midwest pro-union culture, I based that on experience with ex union workers from there who tend to want to argue doing something rather than actually doing what they are told by a superior. This gives me a good idea of their background and what they were allowed to pull off under a union. They have all since been fired as that sort of attitude does not work well over here.

you are just as guilty of doing that. that is why you butt heads with them.

[shabam]

I do not care either way about the union or no union. You are the one who wants to destroy it & all I do is tell you, you are wrong for blaming all the problems on unions.

So what you mean is, talk the local congressman, who is as crooked as they get, so they can do nothing. Nothing of the sort will ever be sorted out at that level when min wage can stay 3.35 for 8 years while inflation soars, there is a problem with the system. That system is broken.

& since there is no future for the big 3 & because of the way the auto industry is so tied to gether, you had better believe these other auto companies will also suffer big time when they go down.

The freemarket did not decide. It was the elitists & politiicans who decided the direction well over 30 years ago.

Crooked? It's you guys who vote them in up there and not me. I base my vote on the candidate's performance rather than cheap promises or party lines.

The foreign manufacturers will not go down as people continue to buy more and more of their cars. It is all about brand name and reputation. GM's for example is in the gutter.

How did the elitist and politicians decide the direction?

[shabam]

you are just as guilty of doing that. that is why you butt heads with them.

I don't backtalk or question my superior. Certainly not when they specifically ask me to do something, regardless of what I think of it. Whereas I have seen it happen with a supervisor and fired the employee myself, on the spot. Where was he from, Ohio. The company pays our employees well $14.50 an hour minimum and and they are generally quite happy. Win / Win for all of us. While it isn't the best job, we are more than happy to help them train and move up. Or even move into another field or career if they are determined to do so. Have not had one OH&S incident on site.

[Bandit]

Crooked? It's you guys who vote them in up there and not me. I base my vote on the candidate's performance rather than cheap promises or party lines.

The foreign manufacturers will not go down as people continue to buy more and more of their cars. It is all about brand name and reputation. GM's for example is in the gutter.

I have not voted for a republican or democrat for 12 years and I never will again. so it aint me putting them in there.

How did the elitist and politicians decide the direction

When they sold out to cheap labor down south and overseas 30 years ago.

The foreign manufacturing WILL go down. It has already started.

[Bandit]

I don't backtalk or question my superior. Certainly not when they specifically ask me to do something, regardless of what I think of it. Whereas I have seen it happen with a supervisor and fired the employee myself, on the spot. Where was he from, Ohio. The company pays our employees well $14.50 an hour minimum and and they are generally quite happy. Win / Win for all of us. While it isn't the best job, we are more than happy to help them train and move up. Or even move into another field or career if they are determined to do so. Have not had one OH&S incident on site.

People cannot raise a family on 14 bucks an hour, pay all the bills and insurance. Ohio is a very cheap place to live, I know this but it is still not enough to buy a house & make ends meet when you have more than one mouth to feed.

Why dont you try making it on that, then you will know.

[shabam]

When they sold out to cheap labor down south and overseas 30 years ago.

The foreign manufacturing WILL go down. It has already started.

It's called the free market. This is not communist Russia where the government can tell you where, when and what to buy. In the past unions have been able to blackmail and extort companies into staying in highly unionized states, at the expense of the company's future. Most companies operating in such condition have closed down. The south on the other hand gives companies the freedom to manufacture in the US again.

Foreign manufacturing is going down where?

[Bandit]

I don't backtalk or question my superior. Certainly not when they specifically ask me to do something, regardless of what I think of it.

They must be paying you well.

I question everything. Then again, I would not sell out to the politics & dog eat dog lies in todays markets & work places.

[Bandit]

It's called the free market. This is not communist Russia where the government can tell you where, when and what to buy. In the past unions have been able to blackmail and extort companies into staying in highly unionized states, at the expense of the company's future. Most companies operating in such condition have closed down. The south on the other hand gives companies the freedom to manufacture in the US again.

Foreign manufacturing is going down where?

it is starting in China.

We are so headed toward communism it aint even funny. It is going to have smack you on the head then you will know.

the people down south do not make that much money. I know this for a fact & they are worked like dogs in factories.

[Bandit]

It's called the free market.

There are problems with the free market & free trade. Just because it has the word free in the title does not mean free as in liberty & freedom.