Senate to Middle Class: Drop Dead ...a message from Michael Moore

[john117]

WOW! A great lengthy thread w/ multiple sides to look at.

Getting back to the OP's topic - There were some grains of truth in the letter altough I must admit I DESPISE Michael More (anybody see Team America? LOL). Those CEO's of the bailed out comapnies should have been arrested and prosecuted for promoting that type of orginazational cutlure.

And about the big 3 - I would like to add a contributing factor: Most of their designs blow!!! Why is that super badass Camaro just now coming out? Chevy discontinued its Astro van for the Venture? What gives? The S-10 line removed? Ford w/ it'd Freestyle? WTF?!?! Where is the innovation?
Don't even get me started on Jeep removing the Cherokee in '01!!! And what hell is with all of their overlap? Riddle me that, Batman.

[Genenco]

I don't kow if I said this, but here's my take on the whole deal...

I'm REALLY glad the UAW wouldn't budge on pay. I mean really, the automaker agreed to stop lawsuits, deal better with fuel economy and such..But wait, did they give up some of THEIR money??

Nope..That's why I totally support the UAW with standing fast.

Now regarding unions in general..I worked at the Tualitin coke distributor who had a union and on the night shift, there was one guy with 25 YEARS in the union..Why was he on the night shift? Because the night manager was the only one who could get him to work!

This really puzzled me, but I would see this guy just dick out the night, load maybe 2 small sidedelivery trucks (The other 3 people would do 16 and I was loading the 40+ foot trailers (Really easier then the smaller trucks..REALLY) by myself..Ok, did have another guy, but for every one he did, I did 4...So...bye bye to him.

But one morning guy told me "He's got 25 years in, he's the most senior and if he don't really want to work he'll just sit there on the dock doing nothing..Now I don't for one moment think this was right...But it was VERY curious.

I was just at a loss to totally understand, but then again, I'd probably have to have been in the union to do so...

[JRScott]

Geneco you realize that the UAW does have to give into wage/benefit cuts according to the terms of the loan by no later than Dec 31st 2009.

[Genenco]

Is that the new loan that Bush signed (In the spending bill) or the one that failed?

[Genenco]

OK, saw it was in the spending bill..Just nice how it was rammed down the UAWs throat.

Not surprising, I suspect though this will lead to possibly a fight somewhere soon and there's going to be alot of plants sitting idle for awhile.

[JRScott]

Personally since they are borrowing my money and make more than 3 times I do in total compensation, I think it's fair.

However it is possible the Obama administration might overlook that requirement.

However without concessions from labor, as well as management and creditors they can't be viable. If they are unwilling we shouldn't loan them any money and just let them collapse as its just flushing the money otherwise.

[Genenco]

I didn't hear of management taking any cuts..Guess we'll be seeing the car maker assembly line people in line at the soup kitchen

[Minnymouth]

Govt, does not "bail-out" the individual, nor the small business man, WHY SHOULD THEY BAIL OUT CORPORATIONS - that can't run their business competently.

Most auto plants are run by "robot machinery", no individuals (they only overlook the machinery), so this is added income for the corporation. Automation put MANY PEOPLE out of work in many factories across the US.... This is one way that corporations have billions in Qtly Profits. They are out no "employee expense" in a lot of areas.

Our govt is now using valuable tax payer money to bail out - savings & loans, banks, large corporations, wall street, and oil refinerys (all who have gotten in over their heads loaning out money or spending too much).

People like the little man (us) or the private business owner has no recourse, they are forced into bankruptcy. These large corporations should be the same way...... forced to sell their assets, etc, and forced into a Chapter 13 and restructure.

NO FREE BAIL-OUT SHOULD EVER BE GIVEN TO ANYONE.....without consequences..... loss of assets, restructuring, etc.... AND ESPECIALLY without loss of big CEO benefits, etc. These CEO's are supposed to be keeping these companies on the "right track".......... They are not earning their benefits, if their company FAILS............

What we're to do about it all......... that's the problem. Someday in our future, their will be an "UPROAR' of the private sector against all these bailouts and unfair practices by our govt.

Someday the "private sector" will be "TAXED" - TILL THEY SAY NO MORE!!!
There's people right now who refuse to pay taxes of any kind, what does the govt. do about it...... REALLY NOTHING...... most cities won't even collect property taxes or parking tickets.... BUT yet they will increase the taxes for the people who will pay freely. Someday, it will all change.....................

That day should be interesting, I hope I live to see it!!! What will the govt do then? See how many soldiers volunteer, how many contractors get paid, how many shuttles they send into space (searching for a new world) While people here on earth are starving and freezing to death.................

Like I said, I hope I live to see it...................