Minny needs help!!!!

[Minnymouth]

Ok folks, for all you that like to "bash" each other! Use that energy to help me find an answer to a question.....

In the state of Kentucky,

When a mobile home (treated like a car title) is sold and the title to the mobile home is never recorded by the buyer.. 8 years later - WHO LEGALLY OWNS THE MOBILE HOME???? The seller or the buyer???

If I went to take a lien against the buyer, I can't.... because at the court house the buyer doesn't own it - the seller still does!!! The court house WILL NOT honor the lien!!!

Also, in bankruptcy, (same title) if the Trustee has to go to court to take the buyer's "rights" away to the mobile home - WHAT ABOUT THE SELLERS RIGHTS??? The seller still owns the mobile home (according to all legal papers)..
Would the Trustee not ALSO HAVE TO TAKE the "sellers" rights?

Good questions, need help with some answers!!!

Put your heads together on this one for me folks, my "roof" depends on it!!!

Need a little help from my friends,

Minny

[Minnymouth]

Not Looking for Legal Advice here, just advice on where I can look for the information I need......
Have tried clerk of courts, dept of motor vehicles (state office), even my lawyer doesn't know the answer (duh)....
Any suggestions??

[HHM]

Well, if the people on the ground in your state don't readily know, I am not sure what luck you will have on this forum.

All I can do is direct you to your states statutes. If I had to guess, there is probably some equivalent in mobile homes to "adverse possession" as in real estate, and probably "good faith bona fide purchaser". In adverse possession, If you have possession of a mobile home for a certain period of time (the statute will define the time) that is open, obvious, and adverse to the true owner, and the true owner does nothing, you can bring an action in court to quiet title and have the title put in your name. However, since a mobile home is more akin to personal property than real property, adverse possession may not work. I would also guess that there must be some type of bona fide good faith purchaser argument you can make. Do you have a copy of the original purchase agreement?

However, in your case, you have a bona fide sale with a failure to record title. Frankly, the trustee may be overstepping his bounds on this one, but if no one is willing to fight him/her, then...????

Honestly, if I were you, I would have fought the title issue from day one saying that you OWN the mobile home and try to apply the exemption. Regarding the original owner (your seller), that person would probably have to at least be put on notice of the trustees doings, if the trustee fails to notice the original seller, the trustee's motion may be denied.

[Minnymouth]

Thanks for the input HHM,

In Ky a mobile home is treated as "personal property", an adverse possession does not apply.

I have argued since day one that legally I do not own the mobile home, the seller still does. My lawyer really didn't want to get into that issue. In fact when the trustee filed the adversary complaint - my lawyer ignored it - let them take a judment against me (to take the MH) without telling me... I didn't know about it till the "judgement" came down. HIs attitude was the "strong arm of the court" can do whatever they want....when I asked.

My lawyer has "sucked" since day one, and I personally know quite a few lawyers (friends) - they just don't practice bankruptcy law... Everytime a petition was filed - I got my copy, but my lawyer never seemd to get his!! When I would call, he knew nothing about it....

If the trustee has to file to take my interest in the MH, then why would he not have to take the sellers interest also..... they are the owner on record at the courthouse.

The judge granted a petition to sell at auction. But I don't think the judge knows the whole story. I think the judge thinks - the bank just never put their lien on MY TITLE...... I don't think the judge knows that the title was never RECORDED and NOT IN MY NAME..... Thus making the MH the sellers asset - not mine.....

My argument from day one has been "how can the Trustee sell an asset that is not legally mine"???

Its been a real mess and getting worse as it goes.

Bank refused to let me redeem my property (the land) and has given it to the Trustee to put with the house to sell, so the land/house will auction together thus creating more money for the creditors. My lawyer said the bank was really "mad" over their losses.......DUH - they are the ones that created the problem....

I can redeem my MH from the trustee, but the bank still refuses to sell me the land back. Said if I want house/land together I have to pay full market value for it...(appraisal value).... not auction value...

So HHM, I am getting a great education in bankruptcy 101....
Especially the things that can happen and you can run into.....

I keep doing my research, and getting my education...

I, too, think the Trustee MIGHT be stepping over the boundaries, by not notifying the seller that he's selling the MH.... He has made no attempt to notify the seller of anything....

This I will be checking into....believe me... I've said it's wrong from day one -- its not my asset (legally) !!!!

So thanks for your input, I appreciate your thoughts.....
If you should think of any sites I might look on, or laws that I need to read, please let me know.....
I have gone thru the state statues, looking for informatin.....cannot find a case even similar to mine in KY... Found one in MIchigan, but not quite the same.... (title was recorded without the lien)...

But I'm not giving up yet.....

I'll keep digging....

Thanks,

Minny

[Minnymouth]

NOTICE TO EVERYONE ON THIS FORUM

The above problems I have encounter in my Chapter 7 are "one in a million odds".
I could have won the Lottery easier!!!!

Chances of something like this happening to you is extremely RARE!!! I've only run across one other case similar to this......... and in that case the person did own their moble home - the bank had just not taken their lien against it....

So newbies, don't be worried that this could happen to you, because it probably NEVER WILL....

Normal Chapter 7 cases are quick, and painless mostly..... very few have any objections to discharge, and are over within 4 months.

My case is an "extremely rare case"......

Just my thoughts (don't want to scare a newbie)

Minny

[Minnymouth]

HHM,
I have discovered that "yes" the trustee should have petitioned the court to take the interest of the seller also.... and this he did not do!!
Legally in the state of Ky, the MH still belongs to the seller as it hasn't been recorded and should have been recorded within 15 days of the sale.
Thus the MH is "not my asset"!!! Still belongs to the seller..
Very interesting situtation,
We are in the process to find out what we can do about this and if the auction can be stopped by the seller.... since he still legally own the MH.
We are certain the judge granted a petition to sell at auction BECAUSE he thouht the "lien" on the title was unperfected - We don't think he knows that the title it's self is not in my name.....

Back to doing research, Wish me luck,

Minny

[Genenco]

Minny, not that I would (Well, maybe) but I'd surely ponder other avenues..But still and all, I'm sorry you are having these problems..

Maybe you might have a case against the lawyer for incompentence?

[Minnymouth]

Geneco,
Thank for the input......
Yes, my lawyer has a "problem", so does the bank, mortgage company, title company, and possible the trustee...
When I go for blood - I'm headed for the jagular!!!!
EVERYBODY'S little "clerical errors" 8 years ago have cost me my retirement home and about $80,000 in investment.
All down the "tubes" because somebody didn't do their job!!!

Needless to say I'M NOT A HAPPY CAMPER............

I'm going after "blood" and lots of it!!!!

I'm a "fighter".....

Minny

[HHM]

Well, you could try filing a Motion to Reconsider (although it may be too late) and argue your attorney dropped the ball.

I forget some of the details around your sitution, but was the mobile home your residence? And assuming you had owned it, could you have exempted the mobile home?

If it could have been exempted, I probably would have argued that in fact, you did own it and not try and argue that the seller still owned it. It really is true that possession is nine-tenths the law. We tend to get hung up on things like title and so forth, but the law generally takes a practical view of these things. If you had possesion of it, everyone thought you owned it, and you thought you owned it, the court will rewrite the title.

To bad about your attorney dropping the ball.

[Minnymouth]

Yeah, my residence, and yes I could have exempted it....

Yeah, I've not been too happy with my attorney, but can't afford another and most others won't even talk about taking it since its still a pending case.

My attorney is looking at things in a new light today..... I had a conference with him and brought along another attorney to sit in....(an old friend-retired). I told my attorney from now on my friend is entitled to "any" and "all" information regarding my case. I told him talking to my friend was the same as talking to me...... I fixed a written note of consent.

Needless to say my attorney KNEW him and his circle of friends....!!!

So now more discussions about stuff is opening up, I'm getting some questions answered instead of being "brushed off"......

And we are trying to find a way to solve this problem without having to go to auction and buy everything back and full market value and loose all my investment...

I will ask him about the Motion to Reconsider and see what he says.

I did no tell my "friends" about filing bankruptcy - too embarrassed..... They are mad because I didn't contact them when all of this mess started, but they all have their heads together now looking for a solution. These "friends" (all attorneys) feel really bad because one of them sold me the property and MH.....

They looked over all the paperwork and said the title company is the one that screwed everybody over, me, bank, mortgage company... Their errors on Christmas Eve recording stuff. (in a big hurry)....

So with their help, maybe we can come up with something.... we hope so....

Thanks for all your help and input, really appreciate it.

Will keep you posted as to whats happening.

Minny

[robivi3]

I'm sorry i can't help, just disgusted. Special circumstances applied in your case and your life became a hellish nightmare. You have really kept your wits. I do believe you will come out OK, I really do, just please hit your knees a couple of nites. Not to get to spiritual but please do.

I think two things sum up some of the most important lessons from the Bible one is a direct quote: love the Lord your God with all... and your neighbor as yourself. The other was hanging in the Lums on Lincoln Road 30 years ago and i never forgot it... "pray to god, but row towards shore".
Prayin' is good, but the leg work counts to...

[Lightning]

I'm curious as to what an 8 year-old mobile home is worth. I'm also wondering how you could "buy" it and not get a title. How does that happen?

[robivi3]

The problem with sewing a lawyer in a small town? As I remember Min's problem started with a title company that dropped the ball. She's already banged her head a million times for her mistake of not keeping up on things.

It happens, otherwise we'd all be rich at this point. I don't care if you explain it again Min. The issue has to be dealt with in the condition that it's in. Anyone in a BK Forum with an ounce of brains will be more careful in the future. And anyone in or feeling the need to visit a BK Forum has made alot of mistakes. We're all Joe average, and I'm sure that many who are well above us Joe averages have made there share of errors to.

Titles don't get filled out and issued on the date of purchase, we all know that. Likely she had payments and title was probably supposed to be with the Bank and the Bank dropped the ball. I have never seen the title to the GMC I boughtn new in 2001, hopefully when paid off GMAC will have one to send me, if they don't then I have a problem. I would still get registration every year in Florida, still get Insurance. But God Forbid my mother or wife or child should get sick as is Min's case I may not be so darn worried about the title and i may go into debt and hock my body and have to BK paying for that person and the Trustee may want my Truck without the title and try to take it and it may technically be the sellers truck and have aproblem and i may not be able to worry about it until that point. That's how titles get screwed up. It can happen to anyone.

Yes, most of our mistakes are our own, we bloody well make them, we all admit to that. Please Min don't bother explaining, especially when the question seems bent to make you feel stupid.

[Lightning]

I'm just wondering if a mobile home is worth all this trouble. We're not talking about a million dollar estate. It certainly sounds like a mess. Is this place worth all your time, money, and sanity? I'm all for standing up for principle, but a mobile home?

[Genenco]

I'm just wondering if a mobile home is worth all this trouble. We're not talking about a million dollar estate. It certainly sounds like a mess. Is this place worth all your time, money, and sanity? I'm all for standing up for principle, but a mobile home?

Lighting, like I said before, read before repsonding. If you had, you would have seen this:

EVERYBODY'S little "clerical errors" 8 years ago have cost me my retirement home and about $80,000 in investment.
All down the "tubes" because somebody didn't do their job!!!
Minny

Now, being the calm complacent one, let's see you walk away from $80,000..That's all..Go ahead.....