Using bankruptcy software instead of an attorney

[debtmonster]

Have many people done this instead of paying big bucks to an attorney?

I was searching on Google and found this software to do your own bankruptcy.

The local attorney here wants $1600 from us to file Chapter 7. I'd be scared to do it myself. I feel more comfortable filling out forms on something like Turbo Tax. It would be so sweet if Intuit made bankruptcy software as their tax software is so user-friendly making taxes easy. If they could only make bankruptcy software just as easy.

With the economy being so bad, I wish I could be a bankruptcy attorney right now. These guys have to be so flooded with work.

I saw this other bankruptcy software for attorneys, but they want $1000 for it!

I wish I could buy something like that and run ads in the paper saying, "Come file Chapter 7 bankruptcy for $200" and I would data entry all of their data in there the same way a CPA does when they do your taxes. I just don't want to spend YEARS being of study to become an attorney and sit in court all day.

[HHM]

The software does not supplant legal advice. BK software is NOT like turbo tax which has checks to make sure you are doing it right, nor does it give advice or tips. You still need to know what exemptions apply to what assets, you still need to UNDERSTAND the means test and how it works, etc etc.

There is HUGE liability for BK form preparers, many trustees go after form preparers who make mistakes or otherwise mess up a persons BK.

[debtmonster]

Yep... that's why I would be scared to use it and would rather pay the $1600 to the bankruptcy attorney. If I only had the $1600 to pay him.

Thanks for your reply.

[PaKettle]

Have many people done this instead of paying big bucks to an attorney?

I was searching on Google and found this software to do your own bankruptcy.

The local attorney here wants $1600 from us to file Chapter 7. I'd be scared to do it myself. I feel more comfortable filling out forms on something like Turbo Tax. It would be so sweet if Intuit made bankruptcy software as their tax software is so user-friendly making taxes easy. If they could only make bankruptcy software just as easy.

With the economy being so bad, I wish I could be a bankruptcy attorney right now. These guys have to be so flooded with work.

I saw this other bankruptcy software for attorneys, but they want $1000 for it!

I wish I could buy something like that and run ads in the paper saying, "Come file Chapter 7 bankruptcy for $200" and I would data entry all of their data in there the same way a CPA does when they do your taxes. I just don't want to spend YEARS being of study to become an attorney and sit in court all day.

Problem is you HAVE to be a full fledged attorney before you can file bankruptcy for people. You can be a paralegal but it's very restricted as to what you can do - no legal ADVICE is allowed which could be very difficult to obey if you were helping people file bk.

Anyone use a paralegal for bk here?

[HHM]

Yep... that's why I would be scared to use it and would rather pay the $1600 to the bankruptcy attorney. If I only had the $1600 to pay him.

Thanks for your reply.

LOL, for someone that is over $100,000 in debt and has car payments of 1,600 per month, just take a cash advance from one of your credit cards for the amount of the attorney's fee, and wait 3 months to file BK.

You really need to get out of denial...you are looking for any excuse not to file BK, but given your circumstances, you can either go with your plan, i.e. flee the country, or you can be proactive, go visit some attorney's and get professional advice and come up with a plan to deal with the debt...the debt is not going to go away on its own.

[debtmonster]

rags

LOL, for someone that is over $100,000 in debt and has car payments of 1,600 per month, just take a cash advance from one of your credit cards for the amount of the attorney's fee, and wait 3 months to file BK.

You really need to get out of denial...you are looking for any excuse not to file BK, but given your circumstances, you can either go with your plan, i.e. flee the country, or you can be proactive, go visit some attorney's and get professional advice and come up with a plan to deal with the debt...the debt is not going to go away on its own.

How do we do that? All I have remaining are 3 gas cards. I have one Mastercard with a $600 limit and $500 is charged on it. My wife has a lot of store credit cards that are all maxed out. We have nothing left. We're at about 90-95% maxed out.

I don't want to file BK and get blamed for fraud. We're not trying to do that. If I could get a $40k job and my wife could get a $20k job again, we'd go back to paying everything as agreed. The thing is we racked up a lot of debt at the end of 2007. I have had severe allergies since the end of the year. I ended up replacing our furniture and tiled our house to help with my upper respiratory problems. I've had horrible asthma that did not go away with inhalers. So we had to get rid of the sofa's and carpet. I was happy with the cloth sofa's, but from having dogs, many people told us to get rid of them and go with leather. So we racked up $5k at Rooms to Go. If we file bankruptcy now, they will say that we did that intention to commit fraud, won't they? We borrowed $4-5k from our HELOC and $1500 from a Home Depot card to put the tile. Plus we put in all new stainless steel appliances in the kitchen. All of this will not look good for somebody who tried to file bankruptcy a few months later... I would think anyway? I could be wrong. I have a friend of mine who keeps ragging on me saying that I will go to jail for doing this. I keep arguing with him that it is NOT FRAUD and I wanted to pay.

[ameliabedilia]

I used bk software. Make sure you know the difference between software and a preparer. Do not use a preparer.
I paid $50 for mine and I was really glad I did. It kept my forms organized and it did all the math for me. You still have to know all your numbers to plug in of course, but it will keep track of all your totals and put them in the right spots on the right pages.
I do not think I actually needed the software, but it helped my confidence a bit because it looked so professional.
By the way I used oneclickbankruptcy software.

[PaKettle]

How do we do that? All I have remaining are 3 gas cards. I have one Mastercard with a $600 limit and $500 is charged on it. My wife has a lot of store credit cards that are all maxed out. We have nothing left. We're at about 90-95% maxed out.

I don't want to file BK and get blamed for fraud. We're not trying to do that. If I could get a $40k job and my wife could get a $20k job again, we'd go back to paying everything as agreed. The thing is we racked up a lot of debt at the end of 2007. I have had severe allergies since the end of the year. I ended up replacing our furniture and tiled our house to help with my upper respiratory problems. I've had horrible asthma that did not go away with inhalers. So we had to get rid of the sofa's and carpet. I was happy with the cloth sofa's, but from having dogs, many people told us to get rid of them and go with leather. So we racked up $5k at Rooms to Go. If we file bankruptcy now, they will say that we did that intention to commit fraud, won't they? We borrowed $4-5k from our HELOC and $1500 from a Home Depot card to put the tile. Plus we put in all new stainless steel appliances in the kitchen. All of this will not look good for somebody who tried to file bankruptcy a few months later... I would think anyway? I could be wrong. I have a friend of mine who keeps ragging on me saying that I will go to jail for doing this. I keep arguing with him that it is NOT FRAUD and I wanted to pay.

If it was not fraud then they are unlikely to prove it was fraud, in my opinion.n So you need not worry about that I don't think.

Your explanation above seems reasonable enough to me. I forgot - did your income go down recently or other reason you are suddenly unable to pay your bills? Medical bills etc.? (I'm not sure they'll count replacing sofas etc. as "medical" reasons even though in your view (and mine) it is.) I too have lived with asthma and I know it's true that many allergists recommend the kind of changes you made, for your health.

If your income went down drastically recently I think that is enough of a reason to file bankruptcy. If you wait and file after 3 months your chances of any creditor objecting are slimmer. The more time you put in between your last major charges and the time you file, the better.

As to getting the money, you can start talking to attorneys now, and if you find one you like usually they will accept payments. Start paying him little by little until you pay him off so he will file for you. Since you want to put some time in after those last charges, anyway, this is a good plan. Are you still paying some bills? After you stop paying them you can give that $ to your attorney. Otherwise, cut your cable tv or sell some stuff or ...? to get the money to pay an attorney.

If you honestly did not commit fraud and are not hiding assets or anything (and I have no reason to think you are, I'm just sayin') then you should be able to get through a Ch. 7 with the worst case scenario being that you might have to pay one or two creditors back half of what you owe them. That's better than owing all of them all of what you owe plus penalties and interest. And chances are you won't even get objections if you're like most people.

So if you pass the Means Test and if you did have a "reason" such as losing income or lowering income or medical bills, etc., then if I were you I would file asap.

I do think you can do it yourself pretty easily if you are a no asset case, especially. But I also think you can somehow come up with the $1000-1500 if you really want to. Where there's a will, there's a way.

Good luck!

[debtmonster]

Yeah, we could probably come up with the money within a few months if we stopped paying a lot of major stuff. We did buy a 50" 1080p HDTV for $3200 back in 2005 financed on a Best Buy card. Would we have to lose this TV? You can get a newer and better TV for $1700-2000 now. What happens when you have assets like this? Do you get to keep them or are they not enough to deal with? I bet if we tried to sell this thing, it's so ld old now that we would be lucky to get $300-400 for it. We paid about $1200 for our beautiful cloth sofa's. They were not even 2 years old. I put them for sale on Craigslist for $200 and ended up having to give them away for $120. We had a beautiful little wooden dining room table before we got the one from Rooms to Go. I put it for sale for $50. One person was interested but they lived 90 minutes away and said forget it. I lowered it to $30. Still no offers. I ended up giving it away to a neighbor for free.

So just because we have valuable assets doesn't mean they are worth anything. They are valuable to "US" but not necessarily to other people.

I guess if we can manage to stay unemployed for the next few months, we can file. I'll try to pay what I can and see if our situation changes at all. I plan to give it a good fight and do what I can. But if the recession really takes a chunk of my MLM, then we'll have no choice but to default on 100% of everything.

In January we took a cash advance on a Radio Shack card and used it to fly to my wife's relatives who she has not seen in 6 years. Do you think we will get in trouble for doing that? We borrowed $1000 cash by depositing one of those checks they give you. We also bought food. We live near a town that has like 200,000 people. I never thought in my life that it would be this hard to find a job.

My wife stopped at 2 job placement centers. Both of the people told here there is NOTHING out. Not even menial jobs cleaning houses or anything. It's D-E-A-D here. I think the only people making money here are the people who are bankruptcy attorneys or paralegals working for them.

[PaKettle]

Yeah, we could probably come up with the money within a few months if we stopped paying a lot of major stuff. We did buy a 50" 1080p HDTV for $3200 back in 2005 financed on a Best Buy card. Would we have to lose this TV? You can get a newer and better TV for $1700-2000 now. What happens when you have assets like this? Do you get to keep them or are they not enough to deal with?

You will get to keep it. No problem. Any debt over a year old isn't even really contestable for all practical purposes. No way are they going to repossess it in my humble opinion.

I guess if we can manage to stay unemployed for the next few months, we can file. I'll try to pay what I can and see if our situation changes at all. I plan to give it a good fight and do what I can. But if the recession really takes a chunk of my MLM, then we'll have no choice but to default on 100% of everything.

MLM? Multi-Level Marketing business?
You don't have to not get a job, you just have to not get a job that would give you an average over the previous 6 months before you file that would put you over the median. At least I think so. Maybe someoen else can chime in here on that. I suppose if you suddenly got a $75k a year job, the Trustee or creditors at your 341 meeting might be able to say that you can now afford to pay...?

But if you get a job that still would not enable you to pay more than the minimum monthly payments and dig yourself out of debt, and that still qualified you under the Means test then I don't think that would matter. In other words, you can probably still get a job, just not one that would give you so much that you could easily get out of debt. And if you do get one like that, great! Then you don't need to file!

In January we took a cash advance on a Radio Shack card and used it to fly to my wife's relatives who she has not seen in 6 years. Do you think we will get in trouble for doing that? We borrowed $1000 cash by depositing one of those checks they give you. We also bought food. We live near a town that has like 200,000 people. I never thought in my life that it would be this hard to find a job.

No, they will not object to $1000 especially if there has been 6 months between that debt and the time you actually file (say, in June)...


My advice to you is that you start reading here on this forum. Start reading about objections to debt so you know what objections stick and why. Read all the STICKIES at the top of this forum, for one. Read this:

http://www.bankruptcy-divorce.com/Information/Manual%20Bankruptcy.pdf

(Ignore the word divorce in the link, it's about bankruptcy, not divorce.)

Also the Bankruptcy For Dummies book is good. About $15 or so at the bookstore. Your library might have it. And you can probably get a used one at amazon.com for cheaper than $15.

Knowledge is power.

Good luck!

[BKOnce]

Debtmonster, when this mess is all over, you & your wife need to take a class in "Financial management" in college. They will show you how to 'balance" your money matters, ie., from using spreadsheets to accounting, to bugeting, to projecting, to spending, to tax, to keeping receipts, to savings for kids/education, etc.

You guys have lived like no tomorrow whenever you got lots of $$ like before. Spend spend spend but no save save save$$.... And that still not counting kids you will have later to worry about.

One example why you two are spending too different from normal people. Me, I am owning a house now, salary 100K+ per year, and own only 42-inch HDTV Panasonic from Black Friday sale ($999/ at Best Buy last year), not a 50" like you then give away?? I bought everything cash only, use coupons, no financed, used car/paid off, etc. Only buy what is necessary and no more, that is. I go by bus to work in city daily to save gas$$, etc. So there always be the way you two can save believe me, just change your life thinking & living patterns you can do it from now on!!

My life philsophy: It is not the way how much we earned or we can afford luxury things in life as compare and/or to show-off to neighbors/relatives that make us happy, but it is the way we live, quality life we have earned, the way we coping with the impulse/desire and control of life we can master our life and not letting life control us!.. Btw, life is short, we eat-to-live, and not live-to-eat.

Learn & educate as much as we could before we all die soon. Look at Warren Buffet, number one richest Billionair person on earth, but still live in two level house in Nebraska, (not a big big 100-room mansion like Bill gates) but still he is happy as a happy dog! When he died later, he will leave much of his fortune to charity and less to his children. He wants them to learn & earn the HARD way! He's my man!!

[debtmonster]

That PDF has a ton of great information. Thanks for posting the link.

[debtmonster]

Debtmonster, when this mess is all over, you & your wife need to take a class in "Financial management" in college. They will show you how to 'balance" your money matters, ie., from using spreadsheets to accounting, to bugeting, to projecting, to spending, to tax, to keeping receipts, to savings for kids/education, etc.

You guys have lived like no tomorrow whenever you got lots of $$ like before. Spend spend spend but no save save save$$.... And that still not counting kids you will have later to worry about.

One example why you two are spending too different from normal people. Me, I am owning a house now, salary 100K+ per year, and own only 42-inch HDTV Panasonic from Black Friday sale ($999/ at Best Buy last year), not a 50" like you then give away?? I bought everything cash only, use coupons, no financed, used car/paid off, etc. Only buy what is necessary and no more, that is. I go by bus to work in city daily to save gas$$, etc. So there always be the way you two can save believe me, just change your life thinking & living patterns you can do it from now on!!

My life philsophy: It is not the way how much we earned or we can afford luxury things in life as compare and/or to show-off to neighbors/relatives that make us happy, but it is the way we live, quality life we have earned, the way we coping with the impulse/desire and control of life we can master our life and not letting life control us!.. Btw, life is short, we eat-to-live, and not live-to-eat.

Learn & educate as much as we could before we all die soon. Look at Warren Buffet, number one richest Billionair person on earth, but still live in two level house in Nebraska, (not a big big 100-room mansion like Bill gates) but still he is happy as a happy dog! When he died later, he will leave much of his fortune to charity and less to his children. He wants them to learn & earn the HARD way! He's my man!!

That's some great advice. There is no public transportation out where I live. We live way out in the country. The nearest bus or train is about 30+ miles away.

The cost of gas to drive into town is about $7-8. I wish they still sold those Geo Metro's for $6995 that got 50 MPG. I would have bought one of those cars in a heart beat. Instead, they have replaced these cars with $20,000 hybrids that get more bling and less mileage.

When I went to Best Buy in 2005, they did not have any TV's with HDMI. I did not want to buy a TV that would be obsolete so fast because then I would have to replace it. We almost have this TV paid off. We got 0% interest until 2009.

I will have to wait until the dust settles now until we can file since we ran up too much debt recently.

[danaf]

I really don't think there is anything wrong with using a doc preparer as long as YOU do your homework, know the laws, know the exemptions for your state ect. Many of them use the same software that the attorneys use (ie. bestcase).

True, they cannot give you advice like an attorney can however just like there are good and bad attorneys out there, such is the case for doc preparers.