Schedule J

[laurannm]

Was wondering if I could get some feedback on my Schedule J expenses. We are a family of 5 living in MA.

Monthly Take-home: $6478

Mortgages: $2643
Electric: 211 (avg over the last year)
Natural gas: 110 (avg over last year)
Water: $25
Sewer: $25
Landline: $30
Cell: $70
Cable: 90
Internet: 45
Food: 1200
Household Items: 50
mainteance: 130
Personal Hygiene: 50
City Trash: 20
Clothes: 230
Laundry: 20
Over-the-counter meds: 10
Recreation/Entertainment: 130
Auto Insurance: 120
Eye\LTD ins: 18
Gas: 450
Parking (mandatory for work): $44
Tires: $12
Oil changes: 30
Excise Tax: 80
2 Car payments combined: 656
haircuts: 20
School Lunch: 30
Pet food/supplies: 20
Tuition :137

Food seemed high when I first saw the number, but I have all receipts to justify. We seem to be above standards in food, but below or right at most others. Tuition is actually $320, but since the allowable expense on the means was only $137, I took that number. I have receipts to justify just about all of this.

According to my math it leaves me with $50 surplus each month

Thanks!

[Cali]

The entertainment might have to be lowered. My paralegal said the trustee doesn't like seeing a lot spent on entertainment. I am not sure if that is the way for everywhere.

My food for a family of 4 is 900$. So I think you aren't that high.

My electric was 200.

how many lines is your cell bill for?

You spend 230 a mth on clothes?

Gas is for how many vehicles?

[laurannm]

Cell is for 2 lines. Does that seem high?

Gas is for 2 vehicles. I travel 100 miles round trip every day for work.

I'll have to review my clothing expenses in more detail. However, our three kids are ages 6, 3 and 3 so they grow out of clothes like you wouldn't believe. IRS standards are $244 for a family of 4

Good point on the entertainment, I need to talk to my lawyer on what he thinks is acceptable. I did see a couple of cases on Pacer in my district in which the UST knocked down the recreation expense to $125 for a family of 4, so I think I am safe.

[Cali]

If the cell amount is for 2 lines, that isn't bad.

I do remember those days or our kids outgrowing stuff as fast as you bought them.

Is your food the standard for your area and family size?

Cell is for 2 lines. Does that seem high?

Gas is for 2 vehicles. I travel 100 miles round trip every day for work.

I'll have to review my clothing expenses in more detail. However, our three kids are ages 6, 3 and 3 so they grow out of clothes like you wouldn't believe. IRS standards are $244 for a family of 4

Good point on the entertainment, I need to talk to my lawyer on what he thinks is acceptable. I did see a couple of cases on Pacer in my district in which the UST knocked down the recreation expense to $125 for a family of 4, so I think I am safe.

[laurannm]

No, I think we are above IRS on food, i think by around $150. I have kept just about every grocery receipt, plus we use our debit for everything so I also have the bank statements that show the purchases. We clip coupons, look for sales, shop at BJs when possible, etc. Food prices are just insane where we live right now

[Cali]

I am 176$ over what the IRS has for food. And the gas for 2 vehicles was more than allowed too. I was told not to worry because of the food and gas prices now.

No, I think we are above IRS on food, i think by around $150. I have kept just about every grocery receipt, plus we use our debit for everything so I also have the bank statements that show the purchases. We clip coupons, look for sales, shop at BJs when possible, etc. Food prices are just insane where we live right now

[Phillymanhere]

hey Laura, I wonder if you have underestimated some categories.

1.) You guys don't have any prescription medications? ... the kids never get them? ... You and DH are medication free? I'm 46 and in pretty good health, but I'm on 2 ongoing prescriptions, sometimes three--I get some prescriptions like sleeping pills periodically.

2.) What about doctor's visits and dental visits? Maybe you guys are younger than I am and have great health and great teeth.

3.) You guys got new cars? Because I see only money for tires and tuneups. What about oil changes, filter changes? .... You have NO repairs? NO other maintenance for the cars?

4.) I'm a newbie here but $130 for recreation and entertainment for family of 5 sounds reasonable to me.

anyway good luck ....
I appreciate you putting your numbers forward ... how long have you been keeping receipts?

[laurannm]

hey Laura, I wonder if you have underestimated some categories.

1.) You guys don't have any prescription medications? ... the kids never get them? ... You and DH are medication free? I'm 46 and in pretty good health, but I'm on 2 ongoing prescriptions, sometimes three--I get some prescriptions like sleeping pills periodically.

2.) What about doctor's visits and dental visits? Maybe you guys are younger than I am and have great health and great teeth.

3.) You guys got new cars? Because I see only money for tires and tuneups. What about oil changes, filter changes? .... You have NO repairs? NO other maintenance for the cars?

4.) I'm a newbie here but $130 for recreation and entertainment for family of 5 sounds reasonable to me.

anyway good luck ....
I appreciate you putting your numbers forward ... how long have you been keeping receipts?

I have $100/month (which I forgot to list, thanks for reminding) taken out from my check for a health care spending account, so co-pays, dental visits and prescriptions come out of that.

Yah, we both have 2008 cars. A leased mini-van that we picked up in Dec and a 2008 Versa we bought in March (previous car had 180K miles and finally kicked the bucket).

We've been keeping receipts since March, but we purchase 99% of items with our debit card, so everything is also listed on our bank statements.

[pa308]

I dont see any insurance listed (car, life, etc.)

[Cali]

Here is a calculator, if you haven't checked it out yet, that might help you: http://www.ca-bankruptcy-attorneys.c...alculator.html

Remember your attorney/paralegal will(should) help you with what is acceptable in your area when you file.

[laurannm]

Here is a calculator, if you haven't checked it out yet, that might help you: http://www.ca-bankruptcy-attorneys.c...alculator.html

Remember your attorney/paralegal will(should) help you with what is acceptable in your area when you file.

Yep, that is exactly what I used. Thanks though

Spoke with my attorney today and he doesn't see any issues with the numbers I listed above. Should be sending him the retainer next week and filing early July. Cannot wait!

[Help!]

Looks almost like my schedule J but with huge medical expenses, more for tuition and a slightly higher income. Pretty reasonable, I think! From my experience, you will get shot down on the school lunches, though, unless there is some reason why the kids can't bring a lunch. UST will want to know why private school tuition is necessary.

[Cali]

That was what was told to me too about school lunches, so I made the groceries more.

I am somewhat glad we don't have to justify private school, since the kids are in public school this year.

Looks almost like my schedule J but with huge medical expenses, more for tuition and a slightly higher income. Pretty reasonable, I think! From my experience, you will get shot down on the school lunches, though, unless there is some reason why the kids can't bring a lunch. UST will want to know why private school tuition is necessary.

[laurannm]

Looks almost like my schedule J but with huge medical expenses, more for tuition and a slightly higher income. Pretty reasonable, I think! From my experience, you will get shot down on the school lunches, though, unless there is some reason why the kids can't bring a lunch. UST will want to know why private school tuition is necessary.

I'm not sure how we are going to justify to be honest....I suppose we could say it is due to our religious beliefs.

However, your allowed $137.50 on the means test for private school so I am assuming we are allowed that same expense on our schedule (if anyone has had a different experience feel free to chime in)

We have more than enough cushion on the schedules where if school lunches is shot down we'll still be ok.

Help, did the UST shoot down some of your other expenses besides tuition and school lunches on your Schedule J?

[Help!]

Even if the tuition is not in excess of the IRS standards you will be asked to explain why this expense is reasonable and necessary if the UST reviews your case. We didn't get shot down on transportation, childcare or medical - just had to show receipts and explain how we came up with the figure we did. You are awfully close on schedule J - I agree with Phillyman that your budget even seems a little conservative for a family of 5. If the private school is religious, you may want to consider add something under charitable giving. Up to 15% is allowed, 10% is the usual amount people tithe... Even if you didn't do this in the months prior to BK it is an allowable expense. It is good for tax purposes as well, especially if there's a chance you'll have to pay taxes on any debt write-off. I would be reluctant to file 7 with a net income close to enough to support a 13 payment plan.