Dave Ramsey's books

I've heard his books mentioned on a few web sites and so I am reading the reviews on amazon. I'm not sure which book is going to be most appropriate for our situation. I'm looking at his "Total Money Makeover" book and "Finacial Peace". From the reviews they both look like they'd be helpful. Any thoughts or recommendations? I really want DH to read and learn to change the habits that have gotten us into this bk mess.

I've read the total money makeover and thought it was really good..it is a plan for saving and having $$ in the bank and $$ for retirement ! I liked it.

I would start reading with Financial Peace and then read Total Money Makeover. Financial Peace is the big picture book and Total Money Makeover is the "how to" book.

If your not sure which one you want to buy, you can check them out of the library. It will give you a chance to see if you like the books before spending any money.

TS

If you wish to have your own copy, Dave often runs specials on his website, especially around holidays(labor day, thanksgiving, etc) where you can get any book on his website for $10. I took advantage last labor day, and bought my own copy of Total Money Makover, as well as copies for each of my 3 grown kids, gave them as Christmas presents.

I got "Total Money Makeover". It looks like exactly what I was looking for. I think I already know what to do. It's putting the good advice and plans, or common sense, into action that we need help with.

I had never heard of Dave Ramsey before I came to this board and haven't paid much attention to the posts about him. I saw him on a news commentary for the first time yesterday and thought he was only telling half truths. He was talking about the high price of gas and that all you had to do to accomodate it was to cut out your lattes, bottled water etc. He basically said you can figure out how to pay for the gas and you'll be fine....he even sited the barrel prices of lattes and bottled water. We just all need to adjust.

He never even mentioned, and neither did the interviewer, that the cost of everything was going up because of the gas hikes or suggested a way to deal with that.


I know absolutely nothing about him, but it made me wonder whose pocket pal he is 'cause he definitely seemed to be sniffing some lint.

ep

He was talking about the high price of gas and that all you had to do to accomodate it was to cut out your lattes, bottled water etc. He basically said you can figure out how to pay for the gas and you'll be fine....he even sited the barrel prices of lattes and bottled water. We just all need to adjust.



I really hate advice like this. What about those of us who've never been to a Starbucks and think the water in our wells is just fine and dandy? It seems like every time there's an article about saving money, it recommends cutting out stuff I've never bought in the first place. Not a whole lot of help.

I can't comment a lot because I've only read part of the first chapter. I think what advice like this is getting at is that many of us have things we pay for that we may not really need. I think it's about taking a hard look at your spending, breaking it down, and asking yourself what do I really need and what can I live without just fine. For instance, I have realized that I am paying for the most expensive phone service and I rarely use the phone. I really don't need the answering service and the caller id either, especially since I also have a cell phone.

I have found, since I have really had to work at getting my costs down, that there is a lot of fat in my budget that I really hadn't realized before. All those 5 dollar little expenses can add up.

I haven't read any of his books, but I have read comments about them. I got the impression that he was, how shall I say, "anti-filing-for bankruptcy, shame on you" type of thing. Is this true?

Would these books be of any help to those of us who are already/have already filed for bankruptcy?

I haven't read any of his books, but I have read comments about them. I got the impression that he was, how shall I say, "anti-filing-for bankruptcy, shame on you" type of thing. Is this true?

Would these books be of any help to those of us who are already/have already filed for bankruptcy?

Laura

If you want tips on ways to avoid finding yourself back in the same boat again in a few years, I think you would find his books helpful. I recommend either Financial PeaceRevisited or The Total Money Makeover.

And he is having a 10 dollar sale through July 8th, so if you are interested go check out his site.

HE himself filed for BK and he doesn't recommend filing...Me I tried doing his plan but I was in way to deep and too far behind and I needed a life raft NOW !! LOL !!

I don't have a huge problem with Dave Ramsey. I like most of his advice except that there are many people that are trying to avoid bk at all costs when financially it does not make sense to keep trying to pay these debts.

A person with children should not work two or three jobs (as Dave suggests)to pay off a huge debt that could take 10 years or more to wittle away. Kids would never see their parents. That way of thinking causes all kinds of stress that harms families and health and wellbeing.

I also don't like the fact that you have to pay to use his forums. I feel like that's just cruel, especially when his books do so well. I do believe that if it were another pay website, Dave would say to cut it out of the budget!

I
A person with children should not work two or three jobs (as Dave suggests)to pay off a huge debt that could take 10 years or more to wittle away. Kids would never see their parents. That way of thinking causes all kinds of stress that harms families and health and wellbeing.



He also doesn't address...that if you have kids, and are working that 2nd or 3rd job, who's minding the kids?? And how much of that 'extra' income is going to be offset by the additional daycare costs?? And how much income tax is going to tax a bite out of that 'extra' income.

Not all of us have spouses, or family nearby to 'dump the kids on'.

So it might sound good in theory, but in practice....:unsure:

Having read some more I want to add that he recommends working 2 jobs etc. only as a temperary measure. He says it should take you 18 to 24 months to pay off your consumer debt, by working more, stopping savings, and cutting back on expenses. He doesn't go into a lot of detail on what to do if you've done all that and still can't pay off the debt in 18 to 24 months. My conclusion is that in that instance bankruptcy should be considered as an option. So, this is us.

I don't think he's anti-bankruptcy, but he does offer another option for some. I think too, what he teaches is valuable. It's hard to find one place to learn about personal finance that's easy to understand.

I just recently caughted his show on television, and he does not impress me. Along with working two or three jobs, overtime, collecting cans, he also mentions to sell the cars if there is a car payment. Well, NO DUHHHHH, sell the cars??? What if you are upside down on the cars? Then what? I think in this day and age, and this economy, he is extremely unrealistic.

Dave is not real high on bankruptcy. He professes to be christian and religious but it seems to be his own style of religion. Save your money on the make over and put it toward your filing fees and a lawyer. Here is the essence of it. Get out of debt either by working your butt off and paying off your bills, Or, file chapter 7. (I said 7 not 13)Then don't ever sign another contract on anything, except maybe a house. Don't ever ever pick up another credit card for any reason the rest of your life. (This means forever) Forget about your credit score. You don't need it, if you don't use credit. Worrying about your credit score is just about as stupid as worrying about your credit card interest rate. Cash is king so save a lot of it for those pot holes, murphy's law, loosing your job, getting sick etc. And to quote Dave "Act your wage"

I am not a DR fan at all. I think he is making money off those he claims to be helping to not get in debt. And I know he does donate some things, but if he really wanted to help wouldn't he just give it away to help everyone.

ChaseSucks - I don't agree with never having a credit card.

His advice is invaluable. Although we all know how we got into this mess and how to live in the future after BK, he provides motivation for it.

He is very big on family first and only advocates second jobs as a temporary way to pay the debt. He also knows that Bk sometimes is the ony way out.

His financial advice is mainly to motivate you to stay out of debt and yes, he declared BK, the reason why he is a good spokeman for staying financially stable.

His mission is his job, so why would't he get paid for it? Your lawyer is helping you out of debt, so maybe ask your lawyer if he will do your case pro bono.

I am not a religious person and he is a devout Christian. You need to look at the whole picture of everything and anything, and not pick and choose what suits your needs............

IMO, if you think you need a credit card, if you don't go through a huge lifestyle change, if you think a new car is okay, if you were not affected greatly after your BK, you don't get IT, and maybe you could have lowered your standard of living and paid your bills instead of declaring BK.

I am not a DR fan at all. I think he is making money off those he claims to be helping to not get in debt. And I know he does donate some things, but if he really wanted to help wouldn't he just give it away to help everyone.

ChaseSucks - I don't agree with never having a credit card.

I really disagree with this. Just giving money away to people is not going to prevent them from getting into these kinds of messes again. People need to be taught and Dave Ramsey does a good job teaching as well as motivating people to manage thier finaces better.

AS IN EVERYTHING IN LIFE - it ALL has a "price tag" attached to it!!! Even advice!!

Dave Ramseys books and seminars offer advice, suggestions, and possible solutions for folks that are in financial stress. Due to the fact that he too had to file bankruptcy in the past is a "bonus" in his presentations.

I do not fully agree with all of his suggestions, but he does have the basic good ideas that folks need to prevent bankruptcy and what causes it mostly.

Mostly "living beyond our means" , job loss, etc...

We don't have to agree with his methods, or the fact that he makes a living off of it now.
But I am glad to see that someone offers such valuable information to others.

My thoughts............

I agree with Dave on some things and on others think he is full of it. If you have 5K in CC debt then yes, getting a 2nd job and paying it off is a viable option and you can pay it off fairly quickly. Now if you have 25K in CC debt, it's not as easy to just get a job and pay it off in a year or so. But if you can combine it with some big budget cuts then that is the way you should probably go. Now if you have 50K in CC debt then realistically you will be paying it off forever and a 2nd job is probably not going to really help here and BK is probably your best option.

I agree with his cash only philosophy to a point. For a lot of people, it is the only way to get their spending under control and be able to pay down their debt. I think it is great while getting out of debt and learning to live on a budget. And for some people, it is the only way to avoid getting into moer debt, then it is the rght decision for them. But if after a year or 2 living on a cash only basis, you have truely changed your way with money, can follow a budget, have a savings account and now are in control of your money, then yes it may be ok for you to go get a credit card or two and use it responsibly. But that is a decision everyone needs to make for themselves and needs to be honest with themselves when they make that choice.

Most people who call his show, seem to need the cold turkey method to stop spending and get their financial lives back in order. If you can realistically pay off your debt in a year to 18 months, can get a second job and want to avoid bk, then go for it. Other wise take the parts of his program that you can use, ie. cash only while learning to live within your means and no credit until you do so, and ignore the rest.

TS

I don't have a huge problem with Dave Ramsey. I like most of his advice except that there are many people that are trying to avoid bk at all costs when financially it does not make sense to keep trying to pay these debts.

A person with children should not work two or three jobs (as Dave suggests)to pay off a huge debt that could take 10 years or more to wittle away. Kids would never see their parents. That way of thinking causes all kinds of stress that harms families and health and wellbeing.

I also don't like the fact that you have to pay to use his forums. I feel like that's just cruel, especially when his books do so well. I do believe that if it were another pay website, Dave would say to cut it out of the budget!


But thats the idea ....work 3 jobs ....so you can pay for his books and forum, instead of paying your attorney and help yourself.

Ok, I am not a DR fan either, tho my DH thinks the man is awesome.

He does have good pointers, and they will work, but when you are so this far under, Dave's way just isn't going to work.

It irks me to no end that some of his workshops cost so much. Hello, we are trying to get out of debt. While I totally understand that he needs to earn a living too, he has chosen to try and help people wrangle their finances.

For some of us, getting a 2nd job, or for the SAH-parent to get a job would actually cost us money or our marriage. Neither of which I am willing to sacrifice.

As a bankruptcy lawyer, I obviously disagree with Dave Ramsey's strong bias against filing for bankruptcy protection.

Although we disagree, I think reading his books is actually a very good exercise for anyone in financial distress. Why? Because reading his work will open your mind to a new way of thinking about debt. For some people, his rather drastic approach will work. For others, bankruptcy really is the best/only option. But everyone can stand to learn something from his approach. New ways of thinking about money can't hurt.

He offends me with his tag line (said at the end of EVERY radio show) "The only way to financial peace is through the King of Peace" [or something like that]. Oh, OK, Dave: ONLY Christians can find financial peace? Jews, Muslims, Atheists, etc., can NEVER achieve financial peace? Bite me.

I used to really enjoy listening to DR but he just gets so condescending to his callers, and his advice in many cases, is so far from realistic, if it were me on the other end, I'd tell him he's a dope. And his Friday shows, where he has people do their debt free screams, makes me want to puke, because most of them have triple my income, half my debt, and want a cookie for doing what they did. Do I operate on a strict budget, similar to what dave teaches? Yep, even use the envelopes, but I'd never give the guy a penny. Making millions on the backs of the bankrupt isn't Christian. He even sent me information on us taking our bankruptcy education through him. For someone so dead set against it, he isn't too proud not to try and make a buck of it. Hypocrite.

But thats the idea ....work 3 jobs ....so you can pay for his books and forum, instead of paying your attorney and help yourself.

Honestly, I really don't think 10 dollars for a book to help yourself is asking too much. The Finacial Peace University is 100 for 13 weeks and a lifetime membership. My lawyer has been a couple of thousand. Plus, the lawyer hasn't taught me any life skills. I think his prices are very fair and I don't feel gouged.

I listen to Dave's radio show a couple times a week. He's on in the mid-afternoon here and I'm not always able to catch it. Yes, he's very against bankruptcy, for two reasons:

1 - it's an emotional roller coaster which "tears you up" (his words)
2 - you owe the money - bankruptcy frees you from it, legally, but morally it's still a debt that you owe.

#1 I can agree with him about and I'm only just beginning the process. I've met with and retained a lawyer, shut down my business (talk about an emotional roller coaster) and I'm in the process of selling off the remaining inventory and supplies on eBay while I gather the paperwork for the BK and look for a new job. However, the last 6 years of my life have been an emotional roller coaster trying to keep my business running while I work 14-16 hour days 6 days a week and take cash advances on my credit cards to pay my bills. As far as that goes it's the lesser of two evils. Now that I've stopped paying my credit cards I'm more relaxed than I've been in years.

#2, yes there's still a moral obligation there that tugs at me. The vindictive side of me says that my credit card companies have screwed me over long enough with absurd interest rates and high fees. The other side of me says that I signed the contract, knowing that they would raise my rates if I screwed up, and it was my fault that I missed the payments and caused the late fees and high rates. I'm still struggling a bit with the ethics of that. Some of my biggest creditors were actually very easy to deal with and didn't raise my interest rates until I was well over 30 days past due on $25000+ debt. The really rude ones were the smaller credit lines anyway. Chase and AmEx can piss off. USAA I feel sorry for. I opened that account only a couple of years ago, transferred a bunch of debt over to them, bought some inventory on the card, was late on several payments. They didn't charge me a late fee or raise my rate (from the 9.9% it started at). At some point (over a year in) they sent me a letter to say I could either close the account and pay it under the current terms, or they were raising my rate. I elected to close the account and keep my 9.9%. Now, less than a year later, I'm filing BK on them. I know they plan that a certain percentage of customers will file BK and work that into their formulas, but man...I've really screwed them over.

As much as he's against it and doesn't recommend it, he says all the time that "sometimes good people file bankruptcy." He's aware that it happens, but he thinks it happens all to often to people who aren't really bankrupt and would be able to work through their debt without filing and end up better off in the end (and that many BK lawyers push people into it to make a quick buck). I hear people call in all the time who want to file bankruptcy on $10K of credit card debt when they're making $40K a year. In most cases, if they just buckle down a bit and quit living the high life for a year or two, they could pay that off.

Yes, Dave filed bankruptcy years ago (I think he says about 20 years ago) when he lost his shirt in the real estate business. Once he made a bunch of money he paid all of those creditors back even though he wasn't legally obligated to do so. I have no problem with him making money off of giving advice - generally what he has to say is very good, and he should be compensated for his time and expertise. I certainly expect the same of my customers.

From listening to his radio show for several months (haven't read his book, but know the gist from the show) I can tell you what he would have said if I had called him back at the first of the year. With over $130K in credit cards, about $12K in student loan debt, a couple thousand in back taxes owed to the IRS and state unemployment, plus a $3000 balance on a car and a $60K balance on a mortgage, with my store bringing in less than $1K profit each month and credit card minimums around 2K each month total, he would tell me:
1 - close the store, sell off what I can for as much as I can.
2 - stop paying credit cards or any other non-essentials - pay the mortgage, buy food, pay the light bill. When the collectors call, tell them I have no job and will not be paying them until I do.
3 - Tell any collectors that if they sue us for the money that we don't have, we'll be forced to file bankruptcy.
4 - Pay off the taxes that we owe FIRST to get the IRS off of our backs
5 - since we're pretty close to paying off the one car with a lien on it, pay it off as soon as possible. At this point it almost qualifies as a beater anyway.
6 - get a job or three.
7 - live very frugally - "beans and rice, rice and beans" is his catchphrase
8 - store up some cash, when I have a good pile call my smallest creditor and make them an offer. Keep working up the ladder until they're paid off.
9 - at any point, if a creditor sues us, they've forced us to file bankruptcy.

That's good advice, generally. If I were to get a good job paying $40-50K then I might be able to hack it. Given the job market around here, my lack of any marketable degree or certification and the huge amount of debt that I've built up, I have very little faith that I can make it through step 8 before someone sues me. I know that if I were to pay off a creditor, then another one sues and I have to file BK, then there will be problems with "preferential payments." I'm also fairly certain that it would take a bigger toll on my credit score in the long run because I would have months or possibly years of late payments and THEN a bankruptcy. While I'm not ever planning to go into debt to finance a business or any luxury purchases, at some point in the next 3-5 years I do hope to buy a new home (thankfully I'll qualify for a VA loan at that time). Taking all of that into consideration, I've done 1 and 2, working on 4-7, skipping 8 and going straight to 9. At this point I'm just waiting until I get the paperwork together and have a steady income.

I listen to Dave, I agree with him most of the time. He has very good advice for those who are working a job and having trouble making ends meet. He also understands being self-employed and has good advice for us also. I'm not following his plans to the letter but I definitely agree with his principles and 95% of his practical advice.

@BK2008 - I've heard him coach several people through the "net profit" of taking a second job (or having the second parent work) if it requires putting the kids in daycare. He's been very realistic about that. If you make $10/hour delivering pizzas as your evening job and it costs you $8/hour to have your kids taken care of during those hours, that's no good.

@ambersss - goingout said it. I can't add anything to it.

@CurtInKS - do you expect that because he's a Christian he'll work for free? Does your lawyer work for free? Your pastor? Do you? The man has to pay his bills somehow. He charges what he charges because he can. Hurrah capitalism.

@wonkettegirl - with any advice from anyone, you have to pick and choose what you're going to really pay attention to. Like everything else he says on his show, that's his opinion. He also has a "scripture of the day" or something like that and consistently quotes Bible at people (Proverbs 22:7 is a favorite). If all of that offends you, find a different show to listen to.

Dave Ramsey gives you the same advice that your grandmother would. Live on less than you make and don't take on debt... We all know what that leads to. We all feel we are entitled to things which are very often beyond our means whether it be new car, a new flatscreen TV, eating out or just simply we deserve what the next guy has. I think it is possible to live without a car payment. The average car will depreciate in value 60% over the first 5 years. That means if you can waste $30,000 and never miss it, then go ahead. Statistically there are VERY few people that fit that profile, yet many people drive a car they can't afford. Here's an average to think about; The average american car payment is close to $500 per month. With the average American salary hovering close to $40,000 per year, this means the average person works almost 4 hours a day to pay for this new car!!! (source:Sarah A. Webster, Detroit Free Press Business Writer. http://automotive-advertising-marketing.blogspot.com/2007/08/average-car-payment-over-500-term.html)


$484 a month invested from age 35 to 65 with the average rate of return of the stock market will be worth over $5 million dollars when you retire!!

Dave's message is simple. Get off your butt and don't take the easy way out. For many people bk is unavoidable for a number of reasons. (medical bills is #1 reason) but for many people bankruptcy was the answer after living beyond their means and not being fiscally responsible. That is just not good enough, folks.

I am not against bankruptcy for obvious reasons, but I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. My failed business and bankruptcy is truly the hardest thing my family has ever gone through, and I can certainly see how debt problems can rip a family apart. Therefore I will put forth every ounce of effort I can to live debt free, and hope anyone who has been through a bk will do the same. Debt is in no way a tool, but it will always be an anchor. Whether you like his message or not, everyone should strive for the results he preaches about.

@CurtInKS - do you expect that because he's a Christian he'll work for free? Does your lawyer work for free? Your pastor? Do you? The man has to pay his bills somehow. He charges what he charges because he can. Hurrah capitalism.



I don't expect a good Christian to exploit people when they are at their lowest, and then preach against it, on his radio show. DR is a hypocrite plain and simple, and not a good Christian. He can make all the money he wants, it's America and he has that right. And if making some of it, is by doing bankruptcy counseling, and then advocating against it, doesn't hurt his morality, then I guess money can buy happiness. No I don't expect him to work for free, and to you to insinuate that's what I meant, wasn't very bright on your part.

I can't stand him.

CurtinKs- The only people that are pro-bk are the bk attorneys. No one in their right mind advocates spend, spend, spend then file bk. Dave is not anti-bk, he only recommends it as an absolute last resort. Many people have debt beyond their control and have bk there to help get their lives back in order. However many people file bk because they acquire debt like it's their job...cars they can't afford, new furniture living beyond their means etc. Your income is your best wealth building tool, so don't tie it up making payments on everything. It's really pretty simple. It's common sense that's not so common. Your entitled to your opinion, I just dont understand where you are coming from.

CurtinKs- The only people that are pro-bk are the bk attorneys. No one in their right mind advocates spend, spend, spend then file bk. Dave is not anti-bk, he only recommends it as an absolute last resort. Many people have debt beyond their control and have bk there to help get their lives back in order. However many people file bk because they acquire debt like it's their job...cars they can't afford, new furniture living beyond their means etc. Your income is your best wealth building tool, so don't tie it up making payments on everything. It's really pretty simple. It's common sense that's not so common. Your entitled to your opinion, I just dont understand where you are coming from.


I don't like hypocrites, and Dave is one. I really can't make it any easier to understand than that. If you need further explanation, I'm sorry but I can't help you. Go quote Dave's sermons to someone else.

Curt, I'm still not catching where Dave is a hypocrite or exploiting anyone. Dave says that bankruptcy is a last resort but also realizes that sometimes it's the only option. If you're filing for bankruptcy, you MUST take a course (in my state at least) on money management. Why not take his? His course will teach you strategies to avoid bankruptcy in the future, and for many people will point out what they did in the past that they shouldn't do any more.

I know that for many people, bankruptcy is brought on by medical issues, job loss, etc. In my case I have a business that failed and still have a mountain of debt from it. In MOST of those situations, including mine, if you had a pile of money set away for a rainy day and didn't have debt to begin with, the medical issue/job loss/whatever wouldn't push you over the edge. That's a big part of what Dave teaches and is certainly true in my case.

So tell me, what would a "good Christian" do in that situation? If the hypothetical "good Christian," who is a financial counselor by trade, has a client come to him to say "I'm failing for bankruptcy," what should he do?

I'm not getting the hypocrite accusation either. It's not like there's a line in the sand between the bankrupt or the non-bankrupt and you need to swear allegiance to one or the other. I think most everyone can agree bankruptcy is something to be avoided. If you can avoid it DR offers strategies to do so, if you can't his strategies can help to avoid it again in the future.

Also, his philosophy is to pay down debt and then accumulate wealth in order to give wealth. So, the ultimate goal of his plan is to bless others through charitable giving, which is a Christian goal, but is not exclusive to Christianity.

He does preach a little and draw inspiration from the Bible, but the principals are pretty universal. And, money is money, it knows no belief system.

Curt, I'm still not catching where Dave is a hypocrite or exploiting anyone.



I understand that you don't. We can agree to disagree. You posts indicate to me, you are a DR fan, and having listened to him out of necessity the past five years, I get how infallible he is to his fans. No big deal. I'm moving on. I don't like DR, and his attitude, and would never give him a penny and I'll leave it at that. Cheers.

I don't like hypocrites, and Dave is one. I really can't make it any easier to understand than that. If you need further explanation, I'm sorry but I can't help you. Go quote Dave's sermons to someone else.

CurtinKS-

Best of luck to you, and hope I didn't ruffle your feathers too hard. I am a fan but don't mean to preach. We all have financial goals to obtain, and we all know there are different ways to get there. I can only hope that one day bankrupcty will be a distant memory for everyone on this forum. You seem like an intelligent guy and I respect your opinion. Again, good luck to you.

And his Friday shows, where he has people do their debt free screams, makes me want to puke, because most of them have triple my income, half my debt, and want a cookie for doing what they did. Hypocrite.

His show just began airing in our area and from seeing his name on here I figured I'd watch. Curt you are so right about the debt free screamers making 6 figures and becoming debt free.:clapping: Dave I make 500k a year and paid off my 25k in debt in a year woohoo.:cool:

I don't see the hypocrite thing either.

As was previously pointed out, the advice he gives is fairly sound. I think he takes it a little far...i.e. that you should try to live on 1/3 of your income, etc; that would be extremely difficult in many parts of the country if you are making less than $60K gross per year. But his general approach toward money is similar to anyone else that gives advice.

Mortgages are liabilities not assets.
You should save $xxx amount per month
If you are in debt, you should cut your expenses and devout all disposible income to paying if off to GET OUT OF DEBT.
You should be on a cash budget.
etc etc.

Hypocrit or not, there is nothing generally wrong with his advice and approach toward money.

CurtinKS-

Best of luck to you, and hope I didn't ruffle your feathers too hard. I am a fan but don't mean to preach. We all have financial goals to obtain, and we all know there are different ways to get there. I can only hope that one day bankrupcty will be a distant memory for everyone on this forum. You seem like an intelligent guy and I respect your opinion. Again, good luck to you.

No feathers ruffled at all. Cheers.

I don't have a problem with Dave and think his advice is okay, but I don't believe in exploiting people when they need help the most. If people are struggling to begin with, I don't believe in persuading them to spend money they don't have on seminars and books.

Suze Orman is no guru, but her free downloads have been helpful and I support anyone willing to make their advice free to people that need it the most.

Just my opinion anyway. :)

I don't have a problem with Dave and think his advice is okay, but I don't believe in exploiting people when they need help the most. If people are struggling to begin with, I don't believe in persuading them to spend money they don't have on seminars and books.

Suze Orman is no guru, but her free downloads have been helpful and I support anyone willing to make their advice free to people that need it the most.

Just my opinion anyway. :)

Still don't get the exploiting.. and as far as persuading people to spend money on his seminars and books, He has a FREE radio show, a FREE television show, and FREE downloads on i-tunes. You can also check out his books at the library for FREE!

One final point of clarification on this issue, and then I'll leave it alone. I only say this because I don't want to be mis-represented. Dave's books and seminars I have no issue with.


However, I have listened to Dave, pretty regularly for several years, and I cannot recall a single instance where he's said "yes you should declare bankruptcy". This is what I hear a lot. "YOu aren't bankrupt, you're broke". And "if this situation doesn't turn around in the next year, you might be bankrupt". Now as an intelligent person, that's a guy hedging his bets, and getting himself off the hook without having to say someone should. Keeps his rep, so to speak.


Now, the issue I have with him is this. As a person to advocates so strongly against bk, why would he attempt to make money off people who've filed, and have to do the counseling? IMO, that's hypocritical. It's making money, off the process he preaches against so hard. If you disagree so be it, but that's my point of view on it. I laughed out loud, when I got his offer in the mail. I equate it to a drug counselor who preaches that there's never an instance for someone to use drugs, but when they do, he sells them paraphernalia. I don't think it's right and if I were in his situation(a millionaire) I wouldn't do it. It has forever damaged his reputation to me.

We are now taking the Financial Peace University class by Dave Ramsey. I think it is a great place to get a fresh start. The class provides the step-by-step instructions that have made the difference. I read the books but the class with a small group for support, and setting weekly goals has really made us get focused with our money.

I had previously taken an online course and it was not nearly as intense. It took less than 1 hour and would fill the requirement for bankruptcy.

As for Dave's view of bankruptcy, I found a call on his website for class members where he was accused of encouraging bankruptcy (I don't know where the caller got that from) He said he does believe that it is a last resort and the behavior needs to change to prevent future problems.

I borrowed FPU from a family member and I think some of it was corny ("peace puppies?") but there was a lot of good information and motivation in the book.

I haven't read any of his other books but have read some of his advice from his website. I think it's one of those things where you take what is useful to you and just don't bother with the rest.

I don't like DR as a person for some of the reasons others have given, but he is very skilled at providing financial advice for novices.

I think he's just trying to help the average person. I have taken his Financial Peace University Class and I enjoyed it.
I also think that it is greared towards people who have basically not ever paid attention to their money or who want to start finding ways to do better.

He's just an average guy telling his story and tips on how he learned things. He's not some miracle politian who can change the gas prices- and he knows that the average person can't change everything!

I think he has great points and can help lots of people.

It isn't something I would suggest if you are already in so far that you are drwoning, but I would suggest it for newlyweds or if you are starting over with a fresh look....

I don't have a problem with Dave and think his advice is okay, but I don't believe in exploiting people when they need help the most. If people are struggling to begin with, I don't believe in persuading them to spend money they don't have on seminars and books.

Suze Orman is no guru, but her free downloads have been helpful and I support anyone willing to make their advice free to people that need it the most.

Just my opinion anyway. :)

I wanted to add that you can take the classes at local churches for free, or rent them at the library.

Also- when you are doing the banckruptcy you HAVE to take classes- you have to pay for any of them- he may not have a choice but to offer that service.

Wow this thread was not really what I was expecting.

I knew from hearing a couple in my family brag about Dave Ramsey and their financial turn around, that he could NOT possibly be the best thing that ever happened. I've stayed away from him. Even though these people seem to be financially set (which is his goal I guess), everything else in their life has gone straight to heck.

I might get the DR material from the library for free, but I will definitely take what I can use and ignore the rest, just like with anything else.

We also got the Debt Cures They Don't Want You To Know About book by the Kevin guy, but that is all about lying and making the cc co's prove you owe it, so you don't have to pay. It's all deny and lie your way out of your own debt. I just couldn't go through with that.