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Bankruptcy Credit Counseling and Means Test

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    Bankruptcy Credit Counseling and Means Test

    We have our application in to EOUST and expect to be approved in Region
    2 as a Credit Counselor (not later than 270 days).


    Check out our Means Test





    ALL filers must complete parts I, II, III, and VII of the B22 form and
    MUST submit a B22A form for Chapter 7 or a B22C Form for Chapter 13. In
    other words, the means test is required for EVERYONE even if you are
    under the median. If you are over the median you must complete the
    WHOLE test and file Chapter 13.


    Our program takes your input and automatically generates a B22A for
    printing. There is no charge to use our test. Once we are approved as a
    Credit Counselor there will be a charge only in our region, and the
    charge for the briefing and the test will be approved by the UST in
    compliance with a "reasonable fee".


    There will be MANY revisions of this program over the next couple of
    weeks.


    Once our test is completely finished it will be in FULL compliance with
    the official form B22. If you are an attorney outside of our region who
    is using this form it is up to you to be in compliance with the
    ACCURACY of the debtor's income.


    In our region we will verify the ACCURACY of the info or the debtor
    will not receive a certificate of completion.


    The UST is requiring that an adequate briefing be 90 minutes. Many of
    the quickie "internet only" programs may be unacceptable. Our
    application carefully details a VERY COMPLETE and ADEQUATE briefing.


    It will be interesting to see how Credit Counselors will handle the
    volume outside their regions. The reason I am saying this is that the
    UST made it VERY clear that they will judge the various programs for
    their effectiveness and therefore, the "internet only quickie version"
    done directly from the Attorney's office may not fly as being adequate
    or effective. The debtors might be required to talk to the counselors
    by phone or to attend classes. ie: the UST wants a personal touch.

    #2
    Great resource!


    It shows my 'operating' expense for household vehicles w/ a limit of $336 per month. My insurance is $220/month-full coverage on 2 vehicles & a total loss accident in my 3 year history. Very basic maintenance (with nothing going wrong) on 2 vehicles is a minimum of $25/mo, and then $350/yr for tags=$30/mo. That leaves $61/mo for gas, or 23 1/2 gallons. (I paid $2.59/gallon this morning.) YEAH RIGHT.

    In my opinion certain categories should not go by national/regional standards but by the individual, with records to back it up. Insurance rates, for example, are based on the person & their driving record. Gas usage will vary based on commute time, but moving closer to work may result in higher rent/mortgage payments. (Not to mention the cost of moving itself.)

    Out of curiosity, are priorities such as student loan payments & medical insurance considered, or are these part of the 'misc' expenses that are allowed?
    Last edited by StaciMM; 09-15-2005, 05:15 AM.
    Most of my information is from personal experience or HOURS and HOURS of online research. When you're searching online, keep in mind there is no guarantee that the info is completely up to date, and your situation is unique from anyone else's. Do your homework, and consult with an attorney so you can make an informed decision.

    Comment


      #3
      Interesting "means test"......many will not fall under this guideline........expenses may be too high......
      Should be interesting to see how this affects how someone files.

      Minny
      Minny

      "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

      My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

      Comment


        #4
        To Staci

        Medical costs are separate.

        Auto costs are definately unfair but this is what we have to work with. If you are below the median you will get a discharge under chap 7 so you don't need to worry about this part of the means test.

        If you are in Chap 13 to save a home and your income is higher than the median, the court will not count your actucal expense, only allowed expenses

        Comment


          #5
          To Minny

          You are right, many will not fall under this guideline. I read a survey recently that says 85% of filers will still be able to get a discharge

          Comment


            #6
            The new law probably will not be that bad

            I guess the things that are not good are attorney costs raising and will be time consuming because of taking credit couseling but many would probably still qualify for chapter 7 if you are not in a major profession or very high paying job. Many people just are average people working a job few dollars above minimum wage.

            Comment


              #7
              I read this law through and through and (please don't curse me out LOL)it seems pretty fair in most areas, but there are 2 areas I think are rediculas. Whether you like lawyers or not, I think it's crazy that a lawyer has to "certify" a client when the lawyer doesn't know a whole lot about someone. A client can hold out info to the atty and if the client gets snagged the lawyer goes down with him/her. Few lawyers will want to handle these cases, driving up the costs.

              The other thing unfair is how a debtors income is based on six months prior and not the current situation. Basically if anyone gets into sudden financial trouble you would have to wait for six months to file.

              I thought the IRS expenses would be a killer and it probably is for some of you, but in my neck of the woods they are in line with what I spend. It will probably go up as it should every year especially since my local headline just stated that the average home in my backyard (Nassau County) is 500k for a quarter acre of land. VERY HIGH!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by StaciMM
                Great resource!


                It shows my 'operating' expense for household vehicles w/ a limit of $336 per month. My insurance is $220/month-full coverage on 2 vehicles & a total loss accident in my 3 year history. Very basic maintenance (with nothing going wrong) on 2 vehicles is a minimum of $25/mo, and then $350/yr for tags=$30/mo. That leaves $61/mo for gas, or 23 1/2 gallons. (I paid $2.59/gallon this morning.) YEAH RIGHT.

                In my opinion certain categories should not go by national/regional standards but by the individual, with records to back it up. Insurance rates, for example, are based on the person & their driving record. Gas usage will vary based on commute time, but moving closer to work may result in higher rent/mortgage payments. (Not to mention the cost of moving itself.)

                Out of curiosity, are priorities such as student loan payments & medical insurance considered, or are these part of the 'misc' expenses that are allowed?

                I think you are allowed to request a hearing explaining "reasonable" expenses to the judge and he may be able to decide. It would have to be for things like student loans, auto insurance, special tutoring or child care. You need real proof of this stuff though. No more high clothing bills, food bills, etc.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by RickD
                  We have our application in to EOUST and expect to be approved in Region
                  2 as a Credit Counselor (not later than 270 days).


                  Check out our Means Test





                  ALL filers must complete parts I, II, III, and VII of the B22 form and
                  MUST submit a B22A form for Chapter 7 or a B22C Form for Chapter 13. In
                  other words, the means test is required for EVERYONE even if you are
                  under the median. If you are over the median you must complete the
                  WHOLE test and file Chapter 13.

                  .

                  Rick I saw your posting on alt. bankruptcy and was headed here to share the news

                  In my state, it shows a 42,000+ median income for 1 person..Hells bells, I make less then $20,000 a YEAR!

                  In any case, I won't be worrying...

                  Comment


                    #10
                    More charity?

                    It will be interesting too, to see how giving most people will be under the new law. This loophole would put most people in a ch7 even with high incomes.




                    Tithing:
                    Up to 15% of your income can be given to charity. This is seen by some as a loophole allowing people who may be just over the thresh hold of having to file Chapter 13 to drop down low enough to file Chapter 7.


                    (source) http://www.bankruptcyaction.com

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by hhou812hh
                      It will be interesting too, to see how giving most people will be under the new law. This loophole would put most people in a ch7 even with high incomes.




                      Tithing:
                      Up to 15% of your income can be given to charity. This is seen by some as a loophole allowing people who may be just over the thresh hold of having to file Chapter 13 to drop down low enough to file Chapter 7.


                      (source) http://www.bankruptcyaction.com

                      Hmmm..Wonder if I should start attending church?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Couldn't Hurt!!!

                        Also donating to a good charity - redcross, salvation army is also a good thing.......

                        We may not have much in our lives - but there's a "lot of people" who have even less..............

                        My thoughts,

                        Minny
                        Minny

                        "It's amazing the paths that our feet sometimes follow in life".

                        My suggestions are from "personal experience" and research only. Do not consider this as legal advice. Each bankruptcy case is different.

                        Comment

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