Groceries Expense Question

[bandrat]

Hello Everyone,

Met with our lawyer for the first time to discuss a chapter 7. When we went over our expenses, he was concerned about our groceries bill. Once we explained it to him, he understood, but he was still concerned that the trustee might freak out.

We have a 14 month old daughter with a mild kidney problem who cannot drink milk, and so continues to drink formula. She also doesn't handle 'real' food well still, and so there is quite a bit of baby food expense in our bill.

Our average groceries bill over the last three months is $945/m. Of this, $234 is for formula (2 large cans per week), about $110 is for baby food. We estimate about $60 for diapers, and $20 for wipes. That is $420/m just in baby basics, which leaves a remaining bill of $525. This does not include other baby item expenses that popup over time.

Of that $525, it includes not just all remaining food, but also cleaning supplies, household goods (lightbulbs, drano, etc), food-related items, such as plastic cups, trash and ziplock bags, and all the other things you might typically buy at Stop & Shop or Shaws.

If this is explained to the trustee, does anyone think this would be a problem? It is very clear the the baby expenses make up a huge portion of the bill...

Thanks

[newday]

If it's a documented medical problem, I don't see how the trustee can object. How many total household members?

[Lightning]

The grocery expense category should include just food items. Things like diapers and baby wipes and Drano fall into a different category. I'm surprised your lawyer didn't help you with this.

[StaciMM]

Breaking down the items into appropriate categories will save some explaining later. Having documentation of your daughter's dietary needs is a good idea. You may not be asked for it, but be prepared.

[bandrat]

Hello Everyone,

Thank you all for the replies. Newday, including our 14 month old daughter, there is just three of us. For those of you who have (or have recently had) very small children at home, about how much were you spending per month on food and baby basics? Most of our cost is the formula and baby food jars.

We can get documentation for our daughter's condition. That is not a problem. Our daughter's inability to drink regular cow's milk is not a direct result of the kidney thing, but is related. She simply can't digest it (much like me), and so it goes right through her. This is related to her kidney problem in that she is very suceptible to developing urinary tract infections, and because of the nature of the kidney problem, this can very easily progress to a kidney infection for her. Avoiding milk avoids the incredible amount of diarrhea that comes with it, and minimizes her chances of developing an infection. So this is preventitive, in addition to making things much more comfortable for her.

The baby food expense is based on 3-4 jars of baby food a day. Our daughter is on daily antibiotics (and will be until she is about 5/6 years old) to help minimize the chance of infection. While not a requirement, other parents have recommended that we buy the organic baby food at the grocery store. The idea is that it is more natural, not processed, and where my daughter is already compromised, it is basically being extra careful. It is not a lot more money, but it does add bit extra to the cost, but we really do feel that is a worthwile expense. Is it a problem that we are not buying the store brand or cheaper baby food?

What category would the other things fall under? There doesn't seem to be a better category on the sheet the lawyer gave us.

Thanks again for all your advice.

[Whittio]

I had the same problem with listing expenses on the sheet. There's some online resource that helps you figure out your expenses, and it has household items on that one, but the court forms don't. I put "cleaning supplies" under "household maintenance". Also, make sure your laundry items are under "laundry and supplies" (I know I buy my laundry supplies in my regular shopping, so it's just "in there".)

There was a line for OTHER, that's where I put some items like pet food, hair cuts, tobacco, cosmetics etc. I just wrote in everything that I was including in that category. I had $150 a month for that category and nothing was ever said. (I filed for my mom, but she never said anything was ever asked about it).

As far as a 14 month old being on formula.. babies up to 12 months are for sure on formula.. your baby isn't that far out of the range that you would still be buying all those items anyway. I mean, baby food and diapers are always justified at that age, if it's asked by the trustee, just mention you have an INFANT at home that still requires formula/baby food/diapers.. I don't think you have to get into details about her condition or justify it at all.. you have a baby, and those are the expenses for her.

As for your grocery bill over all.. well, I spend about $225 - $250 a month at Costco, another $75 at walmart for monthly supplies like napkins and toilet paper and cereal etc. In addition to those two stores that I do once a month, I shop at Food4Less every week and spend anywhere between $160 - $200 a week! Now I have 3 kids, but I think the costs of my 3 girls eating, would equal the supplies for your baby. I don't have to buy diapers and formula!

Again, I didn't file, but I am just stating a fact, that it's expensive to run a household.

Do you write checks to the grocery store? I bet that would be easy to prove that you spend that much at the grocery store.. just copy a months worth of checks.

All in all, I don't think you are spending way to much. Not compared to what I spend anyway.

I hope someone comes around and can give you the link to that online expense calculator, I would do that, and give it to your attorney to add the categories up how he feels it should be, and leave the expense sheet in your file for if the trustee questions anything.

[bandrat]

Hi Whittio,

Thanks. I pay for all my groceries with my debit card. I arrived at the total by looking over my bank statements for the last three months, adding up all the spending at BJ's, Stop and Shop, Walmart, and CVS. Averaged out to 945/m over the three months. The trustee can easily verify this by looking at the statements and doing 10 seconds worth of math. That should be fine, I would hope.

Thanks