means test questions

[lolasaurus]

1. My wife is a stay at home mom, and we've got an 18 month old, so although we don't pay for 'childcare' - per se - we clearly have some extra expenses in the way of diapers, some ongoing prescription costs for the kiddo (she was born with a lot of medical issues, including an omphalecele and only one arm), and ongoing doctor visits. Is this sort of thing included in the food/living expenses allowance?
2. I know it's been discussed here a little, but anyone know for the western district of washington if the courts here allow the second vehicle ownership expense to be taken if you don't owe anything on the vehicle? Seems absurd that this would even be in question since I clearly have ownership expenses on it, but whatever, that won't matter if they rule otherwise.

I hate this means test because it just seems like I can always fail it if I interpret it against myself, and I can always pass it if I enter data that makes sense to me - but that might not be allowed.

[dingdong]

It seems in your case that a judge would allow excess medical expenses due to the nature of your child's condition and your obvious ability to provide proof.

One thing that you may be concerned about, if you are going to incur increased health care costs for your baby, would filing now be in your best interest?

If you expect more costs, for example, for the repair/surgery of the omphalecele that you may be liable for as copays or medical expenses that aren't covered, would waiting a bit be more prudent for you? If you do have a lot more expenses due to your baby's medical condition, and you play the BK card now, you won't be able to discharge this debt in your BK after you file. If you wait, you will.

Depending on your situation and your daughter's prognosis, waiting to file might help you in the long run if you have unforeseen expenses.

I don't know your situation , but thought that I might mention it, because once you play that BK card, you can't take it back.

I hope your daughter is doing ok, I know it can be heartwrenching dealing with such a little one having health issues. My heart goes out to you and your family.

[lolasaurus]

I think that's a very valid question, and it's one we've put a lot of thought into as well. Essentially when she was born we incurred somewhere in the neighborhood of half a mil in medical costs with her in the NICU; thankfully most of this was covered under our insurance, but we still even now have somewhere in the neighborhood of $10k of medical bills unpaid, even though we've been working on them as we were able.

Her omphalacele got the initial repair, so she's a happy little 18 month old running around causing all sorts of shenanigans, but there WILL be another surgery to finish the repair.

Thing is, we're having a harder and harder time robbing peter to pay paul; this month the second mortgage was 9 days late, and some CCs aren't paid yet. The calls are going to start soon In addition to that I'm working 50-80 hour weeks on salary, and the stress over our situation is starting to frustrate my wife and I at each other. That needs to come first.

Now the medical expenses that we are regularly incurring for her - until her next surgery, which could be 6-12 months out - probably fit within the $180 that we're given per month as a 3 person family under 65 years of age. The biggest stuff is diapers, baby clothes, wipes, all of that stuff that anyone with kids can attest is pretty expensive, even though my wife is a huge bargain shopper and is always at the clothing consignment stores and such to get the $1 clothing instead of the name brand new stuff that is 20 times as expensive.

So is that sort of thing childcare, or is it living expenses? I've googled for a definition of childcare, but not finding anything definitive.

edit- thank you for your well wishes for my daughter. She's a fighter, pulled her breathing tube out of her throat when she was just a few days old. Everyone made fun of the nurse for having the one kid with one arm in the entire NICU and still managed to pull her breathing tube out.

[dingdong]

If you are having a hard time paying your mortgage, is it possible for you to try doing a loan mod or forebearance until the next surgery for your daughter is over? Just in case the expenses are unmanagable?

I was just thinking if you had a bit of a reprieve from your mortgage, and were able to make things work until after your kiddos second surgery, you would be able to discharge any excess that your health insurance didn't cover

10,000.00 bucks is 10, 000.00 bucks of debt that could go away in your BK if the second surgery had some uncovered expenses/copays/percentages that weren't covered.

I found a site that has some good info for dealing with lenders for loan mods. Perhaps it could give you some ideas on how to help with your mortgage so you can wait to file until after the second surgery

http://www.loansafe.org/forum/loan-modification/137-learn-how-get-loan-modification-your-lender.html

Your kiddo sounds like she was born with the determination to beat all odds, showin those other babies in the room how to take care of business!

Sounds like she is blessed with great parents too. Try not to let the financial/work stress get to your relationship with your wife and remember to take time out for the both of you and your relationship. Do you have family around that can give you and your wife a "date night" once in awhile. She probably just needs some time to be something other than a caregiver once in a while and forget for a few minutes about all the stress she is under. I know when my daughter was 2 and broke her elbow and had to go under anesthesia to fix it, I thought I was going to die ( and it really was no big deal in the grand scheme of things) I can't imagine the amount of stress she/you are under having to deal with surgeries on such a little one. Just an hour or two away from it all may do wonders for her stress level. Even if it is just a trip to the ice cream store or the movies with a couple hours to just forget it all.

[jessegirl]

I think that's a very valid question, and it's one we've put a lot of thought into as well. Essentially when she was born we incurred somewhere in the neighborhood of half a mil in medical costs with her in the NICU; thankfully most of this was covered under our insurance, but we still even now have somewhere in the neighborhood of $10k of medical bills unpaid, even though we've been working on them as we were able.

Her omphalacele got the initial repair, so she's a happy little 18 month old running around causing all sorts of shenanigans, but there WILL be another surgery to finish the repair.

Thing is, we're having a harder and harder time robbing peter to pay paul; this month the second mortgage was 9 days late, and some CCs aren't paid yet. The calls are going to start soon In addition to that I'm working 50-80 hour weeks on salary, and the stress over our situation is starting to frustrate my wife and I at each other. That needs to come first.

Now the medical expenses that we are regularly incurring for her - until her next surgery, which could be 6-12 months out - probably fit within the $180 that we're given per month as a 3 person family under 65 years of age. The biggest stuff is diapers, baby clothes, wipes, all of that stuff that anyone with kids can attest is pretty expensive, even though my wife is a huge bargain shopper and is always at the clothing consignment stores and such to get the $1 clothing instead of the name brand new stuff that is 20 times as expensive.

So is that sort of thing childcare, or is it living expenses? I've googled for a definition of childcare, but not finding anything definitive.

edit- thank you for your well wishes for my daughter. She's a fighter, pulled her breathing tube out of her throat when she was just a few days old. Everyone made fun of the nurse for having the one kid with one arm in the entire NICU and still managed to pull her breathing tube out.

You may to able to go beyond that espense by showing proof. Not sure if the diapers, clothing etc. can but maybe you can tack on more for the copays. Have you spoken to an attorney yet? If not that would be the best thing for you to do. This way you know where you stand.

I know that the stress of all of this can really put a damper on a relationship. Been there and know that once you file, a huge weight will be lifted off of both of you.

My heart goes out to you and your wife. I truly wish you both the best and hope that your little bundle of joy is making strides everyday.

Goodluck.