bk dismissed link: think you can change numbers later?

[bkfiler]

here is a link to a dismissal granted this year.

take note that changing your figures after the fact, while it may be the only thing you can do, will cause greater focus on your numbers.

other cases i have read also show that changing your story for any part of the petition after a trustee or UST complains about something is cause for great concern and will be investigated.

imo, bk attornys dont explain this well enough to us. thank god ive always taken the approach that you cant lie because that is what they will get you on. ask martha stewert lol.

http://207.41.19.195/decisions/20050404-pk-ANDREW_H._SCHRODEMIER.html

[StaciMM]

Well, claiming $200 in repairs to an old car & $250 for a payment on a new car that you are going to buy is a bit much! If you're going to buy a new car, why would you keep pouring money into the old one?

And, I agree that $425/mo for 1 person in groceries/food is extreme. I can manage to feed a family of 5 for that, though $500-600/mo is certainly more comfortable.

[LostinMi]

My attorney forgot to list my home taxes on my expense list & must do an amendment to add those. This will put my expenses about $140 more than my income. Will that raise concerns?

[StaciMM]

That's not drastic, so I don't think it will be an issue. My guess is you cut back in other areas?

Personally, we skimp on things like hair cuts & entertainment when the $$ doesn't stretch far enough.

My attorney forgot to list my home taxes on my expense list & must do an amendment to add those. This will put my expenses about $140 more than my income. Will that raise concerns?

[LostinMi]

Should I make changes to the expense list to force the figures (income & expense) to be closer. Or just leave it with $140 more on my expenses? If the trustee were to ask, I would indicate that I plan to use my income tax refund to pay this year's house taxes.

[bkfiler]

what happens if the trustee spots something that is out of line or that you cant end up proving to their satisfaction? then you will have to adjust the expense and you may end up having extra income. adjusting other figures after the fact to show you are now using that extra income as an expense will make the trusttee look at your with less credibility.

none of it matters much until it does then its a problem. ive struggled with this same thing. going from working to unemployed. what expenses do i put? the pre-unemployment expenses or the new cut throat deep trouble expeneses. my attorney didnt seem to have a solid answer. so ive struggled with it myself. i ended up listing things that i am gonna have spend money on soon but sure to god hope i dont have to until i get a job.

i wish i knew what was right. however, i did what i thought was reasonable and can explain everything listed to the dollar broken out for every category to the T.

what i do know is to make sure you dont pad things falsely. you have to be able to account for everything if needed. most dont have to worry (until they do )

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Yeah this guy did inflate expenses a bit too much. I also read in other similar cases that the courts do not like hypothetical situations such as "oh I might need to finance a new car in the near future" or "I may need a root canal for 2 grand and won't be able to fund a chapter 13". The judges answer to these issues is "the plan can be modified or simply we'll cross that bridge when we come to it".

[cana]

It depends upon location.

Some areas, like big cities, require more expense than usual. For example, New York or Los Angeles.

Try to find a room for $1,000 which is not in a slum area in these cities, for example.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Some areas, like big cities, require more expense than usual. For example, New York or Los Angeles.

Try to find a room for $1,000 which is not in a slum area in these cities, for example.

Family Size and Expense Type
1 or 2 Person 3 Person 4 or More Persons

New York County ($611 $2,936) ($719 $3,454) ($827 $3,972)


I know. I was actually browsing many cities in many states and New York County (I'm assuming this is or near New York City) and YIKES!

$4800 a month allowed for housing expenses alone for 4 or more family members!!! Whew!!!!!!!

Everyone there must be rich! LOL

[bkinfoseeker]

Well here is how I feel about this.

1) Claiming $250 in repair expenses on an old car and $400 for a new car at the same time simply cannot fly.
2) The student loan payment was a technicality that no one saw coming but seems correct.
3) Food expense - What is the right amount for food? If I were to put the actual amount it would be thrown out because I eat out for lunch at work? Is it the IRS expense allowance? What if it is higher on schedule "I" than what is "allowed" on the means test. Must you explain it.
4) Cell Phone? How old is this judge? Someone must go 3 - 5 years without a cell phone (it even sounds like it is a very reasonable cost $60-$70 - mine is over $100) Does this mean that Internet, etc. will not be allowed if it is not "business" related even though it is on the Means Test as Telecommunications. Does this mean that Cable, etc. are completely out the window? and I am talking about the schedule "I" not the means test that has specifically set expense allocations.
5) Is $150 per month unreasonable for recreation? I have more but I was going to itemize it. "Gym membership" is speifically listed. Is it excessive to belong to a gym that costs money?

It is sad to see that single filers are treated harsher. If you needed cell phone for your spouse or kids I am sure it would fly.