Has anyone filed since the deadline?

[Rona123]

Hi everyone,

Has anyone, or do you know of anyone who has, filed AFTER the date that the new BK changes took effect? I've been considering BK7, and set up and appointment with a lawyer for next Tuesday. But from what I've seen here, and what he has told me, very few have actually seen the effects of the new law.

Basically, he told me that no one is doing bankruptcies anymore, their business is way down, and that frankly, I would be a guinea pig case for his firm to see how the new law works out.

So does anyone have any experience or insight they can share about how the law changed the process on a practical level, or is it too early to know?

Thanks!
Ron

[Minnymouth]

No experience on the new laws......
Though some here may have filed under it.

You attorney said filing were down.....yep, bet they are... under the new laws attorneys are now held responsible for their actions regarding your bankruptcy case. Many will get out of the business, now that their accountable and the quick money will not longer be there for them.....

The new laws, I understand are a lot more stringent than the old laws. Simple chapter 7's will be hard to do and many wll fall into the Chapter 13 catagory now...

Say with us, maybe someone else can help you..

Minny

[StaciMM]

Part of the reason filings are down, I think, is so many pushed forward to get in before the deadline.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Yeah Staci's right. A lot of people wanted to beat the deadline. I imagine that some people filed not yet posting on this forum. There are actually things on the means test that I like better then the old law and that it simply answers some questions that most of us are nervous about such as cell phones, cable modems, directv, etc. It lists some of these items as allowed expenses. It also lets all retirement accounts up to 1 million dollars become exempt as well expensing retirement loan paybacks. The other good thing is if you are lucky enough to check the "presumption does not arise" box, chances are the US Trustee will let it go through.

Next year it will be business as usual. Between minimum credit card payments doubling, between home mortgages on the rise and sooner or later katrina & rita victims will file when they get their lives in order. Not trying to sound "doom & gloomish", but since we created over 200k more jobs last month that usually indicates that interest rates will rise causing some home values to drop. I'm sure the people that have interest only mortgages will file when their house drops in value with no equity built up.

[bkfiler]

"presumption does not arise" check box? wow nice.

kinda like thte first star wars movie where obi wan kanobie used the force to let them pass through the guard station.

"this bk is correct and i allow it, students loans, taxes and recent 50K cash advances can be included as well... case closed" check box

rofl

[Rona123]

I'll know more at my first meeting with a lawyer tomorrow, but it appears as though I will be able to check that all important "presumption does not arise" box, which I assume will make my filing much easier. I am curious to know though, if the 341 will be any more intense or, as long as my paperwork is in order, it would be the same experience as so many have described about filings that happened before the deadline. I'm a little nervous about being a guinea pig for this process, but don't have the luxury to sit around and wait for others to run this gauntless first.

Thanks anyway everyone, and I guess I'll get to be the first one to share my experiences on post-deadline filing!

[mangoman39]

I know how you feel Rona. I too am filing after the new laws have taken effect and it scares me that my 341 meeting will not be anywhere near the same kind of experience that the pre-Oct 17 filers have had. I easily fall within a chapter 7 and I really have nothing that should be a problem, but since no attorneys or filers know what it will be like, I have no idea what will happen. Since filing will most likely be down for a while, I'm afraid taht my trustee will do things to try and force me into a chapter 13. "I see you spend $200 a month for fuel for your car. Well, you work for a big company so I'm sure someone you work with lives near you, so you can start car pooling. That will save you $100 a month, and guess what, that'll put you in a chapter 13. So now I can get PAID!!!" I know that scenario sounds ridiculous, but those ar the kind of things that run through my head.

[StaciMM]

I don't think the 341's will be different. If anything, should make that part of the process easier because a. attorneys bear more responsibility now and b. the IRS standards and medium income address areas of one's budget that might have been negotiable before.

[Rona123]

Staci makes a good point about there being so much up-front work that intuitively, the 341 could be expected to be even more perfunctory. But, I share your fears, mangoman, that they will scrutinze my expenses and income even more so, even though I guess they shouldn't if the "presumption does not arise," as that would preclude the need for the means test. Nevertheless, I have the same fears, that I could be cornered into some sort of situation where they would challenge my income (I now have a job after being unemployed, so every month I don't file, my income increases closer to the median) or my expenses (I will be moving closer to my job *someday* which will reduce my gas costs). But again, if I understand correctly, those are unfounded concerns because even if they did look at expenses, they base all expenses on federal standards. Hopefully my lawyer is doing his homework and will have some answers, which I'll be sure to share.

Thanks!
Ron

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Rona123 & mangoman39, I think staci's correct (again). When you read the cases of the chapter 7 filers that have high expenses such as a high mortgage, car payments, etc. THEY are the ones who will probably be quaking in their boots over the new laws. The law unofficially states that they must live a more frugal lifestyle before filing a chapter 7. It's the US Trustee and the judges that were advocating the IRS based means test to make certain that debtors are withen those guidlines. If you are able to truthfully check the magic "presumption does not arise" then I can't possibly see why they would contest any expenses. We shall see. Good luck!

[davids]

new laws.

Hi everyone,

Has anyone, or do you know of anyone who has, filed AFTER the date that the new BK changes took effect? I've been considering BK7, and set up and appointment with a lawyer for next Tuesday. But from what I've seen here, and what he has told me, very few have actually seen the effects of the new law.

Basically, he told me that no one is doing bankruptcies anymore, their business is way down, and that frankly, I would be a guinea pig case for his firm to see how the new law works out.

So does anyone have any experience or insight they can share about how the law changed the process on a practical level, or is it too early to know?

Thanks!
Ron

I found this on a BK website.

Changes to the bankruptcy laws became fully effective on October 17, 2005. Many people are under the impression that bankruptcy relief is no longer available. In fact, the new bankruptcy laws will have little or no effect on most people and in some cases, the new laws are even more favorable then they were before. Contact our offices and we will explain the many benefits you will enjoy upon filing bankruptcy.

[Rona123]

That's hilarious - I can't wait to see what sort of benefits I will be able to enjoy upon filing bankruptcy!

Well, I had my meeting with a bankruptcy lawyer, who confirmed that I was the first person his firm has met with to discuss BK7 since the deadline. He actually had to get approval from the partners to even talk to me, and I got the impression that they weren't too sure they wanted to bother, especially considering all the work that appears to be required.

While my lawyer seemed pretty knowledgeable and appeared to have done some homework on the issue, he freely admitted that there was just as much that he didn't know as he did know. His focus was on making sure he was going to have every piece of information possible, since HE will now be liable for any errors or missed disclosures on my filing. It may have been more to cover his behind than to give me an accurate feel for how things would go, but he suggested that the trustee would go over my income, assets, and expenses with a fine toothed comb, down to looking at my statements, and even taking an inventory of my home. He also stressed that I should limit any and all non-essential expenditures and charges, explaining that unlike pre-deadline filings, the trustee would be looking for any and all opportunities to push me into BK13.

At this point, I am now gathering every possible document I can find so he can evaluate whether filing is a possibility. His feeling was that the courts were going to be a huge mess as a result of the new law, and we had to be ablsolutely sure to have every 'i' dotted and 't' crossed before I file. As such, my first impression is that this is going to be an extremely tedious and painful process.

Thanks again for the input, and I'll share more specific information as I receive it.

Ron

[StaciMM]

I think its good that the attorney was honest with you-in admitting he is still figuring out the new laws.

[bkfiler]

ive spoken directly with more then a few attorneys about this and read attorney statements from sort of a round table meeting on the new bk laws.

they are of the opinion that they really arnt held accountable when its said and done. you will be signing forms and providing information in such a way that makes you accountable, not the attorney. they say the extra work comes into play by changing the process a little but its in the way of extra forms and more paperwork for proof. nothing else. this is why they are charging more money.

[Rona123]

I was actually pleasantly surprised that this lawyer would "only" be charging a flat rate of about $1,600 for BK7, and that includes a higher post-deadline filing fee and a flat rate increase of a couple hundred dollars...