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    Budget Questions for Forms

    OK,....... We aren't budget people. We don't set aside funds each month toward paying the auto insurance, or entertainment, or buying clothes. We just pay the bill or buy what's needed when we need it.

    We probably won't be filing til sometime up in March, maybe April. One attny's office said they don't want ANY CC charges for at least 70 days prior to filing, primarily for the fraud issue, 90 days is better. We've used our CC's for groceries, gasoline, some utilities bills, etc, so much the last year or so, I couldn't even begin to tell you how much we actually spend on those things. So waiting a bit will help us get a true handle on how we actually live.

    Figuring for auto insurance is easy. Take the premium we paid and divide by 6. Some other things we can figure out fairly easy as well. Like in addition to our rent, we pay our landlord a monthly amount for propane, and then we'll settle up at the one year point. I only do dry cleaning a couple times a year and those are usually big trips. $100 or so each time.

    But how do you budget an amount per month for clothing?? We chatted about this as a family. We don't buy clothes EVERY month. We went back over the last year and discussed the times that we do remember spending money. Usually big shopping trips, items we ordered, and sweats or T's we bought from school. But that doesn't count the times we're out shopping and I throw a package of socks, or T's into the cart 'cause someone needs new socks or underwear. Just on big trips alone, we were coming up with $50/mo/person, but I know it was actually more than that. What's a fair number??

    What do other people spend on clothes per month??

    Recreation and entertainment are a couple of others. We might go to the movies 1 time a year. Most of the time we rent DVD's. We just wait a bit and the whole family can see a movie for less than the price of one admission. No club or Y memberships. Do daughters' club team swim fees count on the recreation portion??

    Getting prepped is tough. I'm so glad we decided and then started to prepare!!
    Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
    Discharged - 12/2006
    Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
    Closed - 04/2007

    I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

    Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

    #2
    "Getting prepped is tough. I'm so glad we decided and then started to prepare!!"

    yep, you have to plan your bankruptcy. no doubt.

    expenses are the toughest for everyone to do. its impossible. it really is. if we knew that info and were good at that then we probably wouldnt be thinking of filling a bk would we lol!

    what you have to do is make sure of two things:

    1-you do not lie on the forms.
    2-you can prove the amounts listed.

    however, remerber that you attorney looks it over and hopefully works with you on changing the 'red flag' areas.

    entertainment was a huge no-no on the old laws. anything over $100 and bingo you were getting scrutinized more often then not.

    for clothing i put $80 a month. no i dont buy that much a month but i guessed based on what i might buy a year. who knows. it was within the norm and allowed. however, if the trustee wanted to question if then i would have to somehow prove it. its a game of sorts. i use cash to buy allmy clothes so its a he said she said issue then right? see where im going?

    the new laws have limits of how much you can spend on each category base don your location and family size. stay under those and you will be fine is my guess. you are testing new laws so no one really knows the outcome.

    start with a big sheet of paper and everything you guys spend each day write it down in a category. it will heklp you build the expense list when it comes time.

    also, go find the limits allowed for you state. see what the max amounts are.
    Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

    [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
    [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
    [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
    [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

    Comment


      #3
      Most likely, this is something you will work on off & on for a few weeks. You're right-there are plenty of things you buy occasionally and you just have to do the best you can to come up with a fair monthly #. Over the next month or so, things will come to you.

      For clothes, I thought about how we tend to buy clothes for the kids at the end of July and then again in the winter months, and added a little here & there for shoes, socks, a new coat each year, etc. I figured about $150/child 2 times each year (they're young, so we can still get most things at Walmart) plus $50/child 2 times each year. Older kids would likely require more-at a certain age you can no longer buy jeans for $8 and shoes for $10! For DH & I, I figured shoes, occasional clothes purchases, and came up w/ about $300/year for each of us. The #'s do seem low in my opinion, but I usually end up getting clothes for birthday & Christmas gifts and we really just buy things occasionally as other items wear out for the 2 of us. DH wears company-provided shirts to work, and only has to buy a new pair of khaki pants occasionally for his work wardrobe. I came out at $150/mo for a family of 5.

      For utilities, you can call your utility company and ask them for your high, low, and average bill for the past 12 months. For entertainment, I didn't list much because we don't spend much.
      Last edited by StaciMM; 01-12-2006, 08:15 AM.
      Most of my information is from personal experience or HOURS and HOURS of online research. When you're searching online, keep in mind there is no guarantee that the info is completely up to date, and your situation is unique from anyone else's. Do your homework, and consult with an attorney so you can make an informed decision.

      Comment


        #4
        PS-
        I think that categories like groceries, clothes, etc. will not become a major issue if a. your #'s are reasonable based on the IRS guidelines and b. if asked, you can explain. "That sounded like a good #" or "I don't know" would not make very good explanations!
        Most of my information is from personal experience or HOURS and HOURS of online research. When you're searching online, keep in mind there is no guarantee that the info is completely up to date, and your situation is unique from anyone else's. Do your homework, and consult with an attorney so you can make an informed decision.

        Comment


          #5
          i told my attorney i spend X number of dollars on food. they said no way. i said hell yes i do. they said cant be. i went ahead and wrote down how much food cost me each day i bought food for 4 weeks long.

          it turned out it was even more then i thought and now i had documentation of it.

          then the attorney said ok but doesnt matter, we are only listing what wont get you into trouble and throw red flags onto your case.

          something to think about.

          (i never knew 'dance' clubs charged so much for burgers and fries )
          Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

          [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
          [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
          [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
          [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

          Comment


            #6
            Bkfiler-have you ever heard of a grocery store?

            How much do you spend? If its more than I spend for a family of 5, I'm gonna laugh!
            Most of my information is from personal experience or HOURS and HOURS of online research. When you're searching online, keep in mind there is no guarantee that the info is completely up to date, and your situation is unique from anyone else's. Do your homework, and consult with an attorney so you can make an informed decision.

            Comment


              #7
              oh sure, based on pumpkins size? she eats no more then a bird lol

              three little kids eat no more then 1 hot dog a day equally cut in 3rds.
              Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

              [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
              [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
              [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
              [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

              Comment


                #8
                How much do you spend? We spend between $400-500 per month on groceries. (Food only, not counting cleaning supplies, etc.)

                And she has a healthy appetite. Had 2 hot dogs for lunch the other day, and french fries. My son eats like an adult. When we DO go out to eat-not often by the way-it tends to be for all you can eat type deals. If we go to Red Lobster for their "Endless Shrimp" he gets an adult meal. (And once ate more than my sister-it was over a year ago, so he was only 6 at the time.)

                Just in case anyone is alarmed-my kids are all skinny!


                Originally posted by bkfiler
                oh sure, based on pumpkins size? she eats no more then a bird lol
                Most of my information is from personal experience or HOURS and HOURS of online research. When you're searching online, keep in mind there is no guarantee that the info is completely up to date, and your situation is unique from anyone else's. Do your homework, and consult with an attorney so you can make an informed decision.

                Comment


                  #9
                  lets just start with soda. i drink 3 liter of soda a day. you figure out the cost there as a starting point.

                  diet soda of course and yes i am addicted to caffine.
                  Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

                  [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
                  [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
                  [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
                  [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I feel better-I thought I drank alot of soda! I generally go thru 2 24 ounce bottles at work, and maybe 1 litre at home but that is a stretch. I buy whichever brand is on sale-lately Diet Pepsi has been my drink of choice.

                    Ever had a bad headache when you went without caffeine, where no amount of Advil for a day and a half made an impact? Only to run out for a cafinated fountain drink that brought relief within 30 minutes? I didn't think I was addicted to caffeine until then...

                    Originally posted by bkfiler
                    lets just start with soda. i drink 3 liter of soda a day. you figure out the cost there as a starting point.

                    diet soda of course and yes i am addicted to caffine.
                    Most of my information is from personal experience or HOURS and HOURS of online research. When you're searching online, keep in mind there is no guarantee that the info is completely up to date, and your situation is unique from anyone else's. Do your homework, and consult with an attorney so you can make an informed decision.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      yes, i am telling you i am addicted to the soda. i know it for a fact. when i dont keep drinking it i get headaches that are like someone is grabbing the back of my upper neck and head and squeezing it like i just BK'ed on your 5 million dollar debt

                      its very true.
                      Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

                      [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
                      [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
                      [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
                      [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I already knew we'd have to provide #'s for our costs to live if we went BK, so immediately, we started collecting sales receipts for everything. If we make a purchase where we don't happen to get a sales receipt, we record the amount, what was purchased, and the date. We've pretty well accounted for almost all of the money we've spent since right after Christmas. I've been really surprised at how much food has cost. We've had pizza once, the Domino's 555 deal, and burgers once for $16, and I'm already over $400 for the month of January. That doesn't count the wholesale club trip for laundry products and garbage bags because the industrial sizes work out cheaper than the local super store prices.

                        I chatted with a girlfriend of mine who works retail at a dept store. I told her about having to fig what we spend for clothes. She rambled off a whole bunch of stuff at average prices for me. General basics that most people would buy each year, especially people like us with 3 teens. Like 3 pair of jeans(pants/skirt)/person/year at $40/pair, 5 shirts/tops/year/person at $25/top, and so on. Some jeans/pants will be $15 at a discount dept store and others will be $60 or $70 for a name brand pair. Some tops/T's will run $10-$15 where a nice sweater, dress shirt, or name brand top can easily be $50. She suggested to fig $100/pair for 2 pairs of shoes. You may buy a good pair of tennies, and a good pair of dress shoes that actually cost in the $75-$85 range, but that will allow for sandals and such that people also buy thruout the year. Then, don't forget to add for socks, underwear, coats, and jackets, etc. Since she works retail, I fig'd she had a pretty good handle on the costs of clothing. She felt it was not out of bounds to realistically estimate that we probably spend in the range of $80-$100/mo/person over the course of a year on clothing. Especially with us outfitting 2 teenage girls for a couple of semi-formal dances every year.

                        Ugh! This is so much fun!
                        Filed Ch 7 - 09/06
                        Discharged - 12/2006
                        Officially Declared No Asset - 03/2007
                        Closed - 04/2007

                        I am not an attorney. My comments are based on personal experience and research. Always consult an attorney in your area to address concerns related to your particular situation.

                        Another good thing about being poor is that when you are seventy your children will not have declared you legally insane in order to gain control of your estate. - Woody Allen...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          those are for normal people not filing bk on creditors.

                          the trustees, courts and laws see it more like this:

                          if you want to not pay your creditors then you are going to have to live cheap(er) then normal and stop spending on things at the same costs. point being what we used to pay and what we can get away with now is two different stories. as long as you stay within the guidlines it wont matter anywyas for the most part.
                          Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

                          [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
                          [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
                          [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
                          [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think you have to look for a common ground somewhere between what you need, and what you want. Saying you are limited on funds because you have to buy 4 semi-formal dresses each year might not go over well. And, if teenagers want to pay $75-85 for a pair of shoes, they need to find ways to help earn it.

                            ***Disclaimer-I have not bought items for a teenager lately, so realize my sense of cost may be out of whack. Even so-kids need shoes & jeans. They don't NEED name brand items for $60-85 a pair that are going to be out of style and sitting in the back of a closet in a few months.
                            Most of my information is from personal experience or HOURS and HOURS of online research. When you're searching online, keep in mind there is no guarantee that the info is completely up to date, and your situation is unique from anyone else's. Do your homework, and consult with an attorney so you can make an informed decision.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              by the looks of your picture it seems that you only by bras and lipstick lol
                              Im not an attorney or a trustee. You cant trust me either though!

                              [x] - Done with 341? Join the 60 Day Club! ___________[x] - Im Discharged! Whoo Hooo!
                              [x] - Poll: Should I File Pro-Se ____________________[x] - New BK Law: Median Income, Means Testing and Presumptive Abuse
                              [x] - Zombie Debt Collectors Dig Up Your Old Mistakes _-[x] - Bankruptcy Law Resource
                              [x] - Need A Fast Answer? Available 24/7!--__________[x] - Dont Be A Hero On Your Budget - You Wont Get An Award!

                              Comment

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