Income increse post-filing?

[Danny234]

I'm wondering about extra income (not full-time or odd-jobs, say) that comes in post Chapt. 7 filing but pre discharge. Looking around this board it seems that people say it is not allowable until discharge.

2 lawyers have told me that basically whatever happens after the filing date is irrelevant. "Go ahead and try to improve your situation," basically.

Any opinions?

Thanks!

[bkfiler]

yeah, tell them they should be dis-bared. and dont use them.

while its true no one may find out.

what happens if they do? you can and will be put into a chapter 13 if you have enough money and it is looked upon as a steady income source as in a pay raise.

bottom line is if they find out then its not fraud (unless you lied to them at the 341 when they asked you has anything changed) but you will be scrutinzed with the new numbers.

objections will be made imo and they will try to get you into a chapter 13 if its enough to pay creditors.

[Danny234]

To be clear: I'm not talking about a steady or regular income rise but rather:

Odd jobs or something that is a one-time-job as an independent contractor. Is this the same?

[bkfiler]

To be clear: I'm not talking about a steady or regular income rise but rather:

Odd jobs or something that is a one-time-job as an independent contractor. Is this the same?

well not really. but i guess it depends on the actual facts. if you have a pattern of doing this that can be shown from the past then it can be used.

also, its its a lot of money then it can be used as well. you never know how they can screw you. they want money and if you have it then they might find a way.

if you need to make sure you dont make too much, then wait until at least after the 341 to make money for gosh sakes. we are talking a lifetime of chapt 13 here.

[Danny234]

It's all so complicated yet vague. I greatly appreciate your input. It's amazing how one can ask the same question 5 times and get 10 different answers.

Maybe I should just let them get judgements. It's all very stressful, which I know has been said multiple times.

Basically, I have had 0 income foe a long time and MIGHT make some money if I get this one-off job. It looks like I may have to pass on it.

[bkfiler]

well only you know for sure if your extra income doesnt change your disposable amount such that its over $100 then that should be safe right?

the idea here is that you dont want to make more money such that you risk beingn thrown into a chapter 13. now you have to apply your situation to the bk laws and see what happens.

if you dont make anything then maybe its ok.

aside: whats your disposable income. how are you paying the bills - thats what the trustee is going to want to know.

[Danny234]

I've haven't been paying my bills. I've been living with my parents and they have helped out here and there. Mostly, I depleted my savings so my expenses far outweigh my income.

If one makes money in a given month pre-discharge, doing a one-time gig, does that money then get averaged out over 12 months to get a monthly amount, or how does that work?

[Badgerz]

First it depends on how much money we're talking about. Is it a one time contracting job for $15,000 or $350, obviously there would be a big difference.

Secondly, what do you plan on doing with the money? You sure don't have to answer that as it may be personal but it would help in getting a clear answer.

Thirdly, it's not considered a steady income that could be used to continue on a bill pay plan. So at first glance it would seem that it shouldn't be an issue.

Back to point one. It depends how much money we're talking about and where it's going.

[Danny234]

I don't know how much it might be as it is a production assistant gig that will be "on call." I suppose it could be a little or a lot depending upon how many days work gets done and how long the production lasts.

I'm trying to anticipate what the right thing to do is as I want to do everything exactly right.

Since it's a one-time gig, is the worst-case scenario that I go to the 341, say "I made x amount of dollars after filing" and they Chapt. 7 trustee just takes it all? Can they convert me to 13 without a steady job?

And also, is Chapt 13 so bad?

[SinkingFast]

In the New Law there are 2 sets of incomes and 2 sets of expenses.

There's the Means Test, which compares your last 6 month average income, annualized, to the Census Bureau Median. The Means Test also has it's own set of "standard" expense amounts.

Schedule I is where you report actual income. And Schedule J is where you report actual expenses.

You may take a hit on Schedule J when it comes time to compare Income to Expenses. You live at home, with your parents. Do you pay them rent?? Contribute to the grocery, utilities, etc. common household expenses in any way??

You cannot count the debts you are looking to discharge in the BK as expenses on Sched J. Sched J is for on going "life" expenses that will remain after the BK is filed and decided. If you have a car payment and you intend to keep the car, that payment will count. If you pay auto insurance, that expense will count. Gasoline and auto repairs, cell phone bill, health and/or life insurance, haircuts, magazine subscriptions, newspapers, license plates, health club or Y memberships, etc,....... Bills that you actually pay for yourself. Those are the kinds of expenses you will be able to deduct.

You need to look at the expenses you have that won't be discharged in BK compared to your income to help you decide.

I think BKF has a point about the "one time gig" thing. We used to have a neighbor, who works as a carpenter. The dude worked long term for one contractor and then got laid off when the project ended. He made a pretty good income, while collecting unemployment, working gig to gig. He was obviously a habitual "one time gig" worker. If yours is truly 1 time, it prolly won't be a problem.

[Badgerz]

I highly doubt they would convert you to a 13 without a steady job. Anyone could see that you'd be on a fast road to a ch. 7 conversion.

The guy that SinkingFast spoke of might be looked upon differently as he has a history of working the "one time gigs" and then collecting unemployment. If you don't have a steady income you don't want to be in a ch. 13. It's kind of pointless.

[Danny234]

Ok, I think i understand but what about this:

http://www.bankruptcyforum.com/showthread.php?t=2617

I'm ready to just say "get your judgments and come after me!!!"

[Danny234]

BTW - I should add - I have been paying my cards for almost 3 years with no steady income, with no income at all for 2 years. Depleted savings. Juggled everything like acircus clown. I could have chapter 7 -ed YEARS ago but I was too......stupid? Proud?

In any event the credit card companies got PLENTY. Still, I want to do it right.

[SinkingFast]

We're there too, Danny. Probably shoulda filed years ago but refi'ed the house instead. We've gone thru savings, retirement, everything.

I was planning on going to work to help out with the finances until we realized it was hopeless. After finding this Forum, I decided to put work plans on hold until we know how we'll file. If we are a Ch 7, I'll wait a little longer and then get a job. If we are Ch 13, I'll decide later. Can't see much sense to go to work if most of what I'll earn will go to Ch 13 payments. But we'll see.

The one thing you do not want to happen is to get caught in Fraud in any way. If taking that job will put you in jeopardy with your BK in any way, I'd pass. If you haven't filed yet, you could give it a whirl and see where it leads. Who knows??!! This may be the job that turns into a personal fortune and keeps you outa BK Court.

[Danny234]

Yes, I agree. I think my worst case scenario is I do the job and give the money to the trustee in a Chapt. 7. Whether the court or the cards get the money doesn't really matter. I could just pass, I guess but my lawyer says I don't need to.