Adversarials...???

[Jessika1012]

When do these most often occur--in what kind of situations typically do they happen? Are these common? How often do creditors get away with winning something like this?

Has anyone out there had this happen, and if so, what happened?

I have lots of questions about this because I don't know what they are!

[Minnymouth]

Adversary Complaints are when a creditor objects to something that is being discharged in your bankruptcy........ Or something that the Trustee objects too that the Court allowed.

Adversary Complaints are separate from your bankruptcy, has to be settled in Court, and cost extra in bankrutpcy proceedings.

Hopefully, you will never have any filed against you. Most cases never have any!!

If you have questions, feel free to ask, also go under search on this forum and put in a word (something you have a question about) and pull up all the threads involving that problem..... Do some reading, its very informative!!

[brokemommy]

This is what I thought happens when a creditor complains!!!! If I threw a surgery on a credit card and Creditor objected this is what would happen. Why does everyone call stuff fraud and criminal?????? If there is a problem, I get one of these to contend with. I don't go to jail for being a criminal like djk says, what am I missing here? Are people just trying to scare people?

[anonymuse]

Depending upon what they prove, you're surgery (or boob job you keep talking about in other posts) or whatever possible infractions can, at a minimum, have the one cc denied from being included in your BK. At the next level, you're whole case could be thrown out. And, yes, you can go to jail and/or have huge fines for fraud.

BK is federal law and there are consquences for your actions.

http://www.uscourts.gov/bankruptcycourts/bankruptcybasics/chapter7.html

[aa06a47]

This is what I thought happens when a creditor complains!!!! If I threw a surgery on a credit card and Creditor objected this is what would happen. Why does everyone call stuff fraud and criminal?????? If there is a problem, I get one of these to contend with. I don't go to jail for being a criminal like djk says, what am I missing here? Are people just trying to scare people?

I think people are trying to tell you there are consequences to committing fraud, one being they won't discharge your debts. The adversarial is heard by the BK judge assigned to your case. You seem to take the hearing very softly, I recommend you don't.

[Minnymouth]

Commiting "fraud" and a creditor filing an "aversary complaint" is NOT THE SAME THING........

A creditor at any time can object to having the debt you owe him discharged.... If he files a complaint, a hearing is called, and he has a valid reason for requesting the debt not be discharged - the court will agree with him and you will have to pay that debt........

Fraud is when you deliberately intend to cover-up, hide assets and transactions, purchase something without the intent of repayment.......

A creditor objecting will result in you paying the debt.

Fraud, proved by the Court or the Trustee will result in you being fined, and possibly imprisioned.....

This is FEDERAL JUDGE, FEDERAL US TRUSTEE, AND FEDERAL COURT your dealing with.... they don't play silly games..............

[SinkingFast]

Creditor objections are where the Creditor throws a bit of a hissy fit but the Court does not indulge them by allowing it to proceed further.

Adversarials are a whole different beast. That's where the Creditor or Court has significant proof of substantial abuse or Fraud.

Seperate hearings are called for. You have to pay your attny more money to defend you.

In a Creditor Adversarial, if you win, the debt being disputed is discharged. If you loose, the debt being disputed won't be discharged.

If the Trustee files an Adversarial for suspicion of Fraud, you could wind up with your entire BK being Dismissed WITH Prejudice. WITH Prejudice is like being successfully dishcharged only you still have all the debt. If you filed Ch 7, you cannot refile Ch 7 for another 8 years. If you filed Ch 13, you cannot refile Ch 13 for another 8 years.

[brokemommy]

Not sure if this is totally right? please help

Creditor objections are where the Creditor throws a bit of a hissy fit but the Court does not indulge them by allowing it to proceed further.

Creditors objections take place at the 341 don't they?

Adversarials are a whole different beast. That's where the Creditor or Court has significant proof of substantial abuse or Fraud.

I thought the adversarial is simply a means to dispute a grevience, not just reserved for substantial abuse or fraud? If anyone objects to something this is the court method to do that???? I think they are like a mini lawsuit during the bankruptcy process, your thoughts?




Seperate hearings are called for. You have to pay your attny more money to defend you.

understand


In a Creditor Adversarial, if you win, the debt being disputed is discharged. If you loose, the debt being disputed won't be discharged.

If the Trustee files an Adversarial for suspicion of Fraud, you could wind up with your entire BK being Dismissed WITH Prejudice.

Are you sure it is a adversarial? Why wouldn't they simply petition the court for a dismissal?


WITH Prejudice is like being successfully dishcharged only you still have all the debt. If you filed Ch 7, you cannot refile Ch 7 for another 8 years. If you filed Ch 13, you cannot refile Ch 13 for another 8 years.

thanks

[Minnymouth]

Creditor objections do not take place at the 341 meeting, all though a creditor may attend and then file a formal objection in the 60 days after the 341 meeting.

The purpose of the 341 Meeting is for the Trustee to meet and question the filer about his petition and go over his assets and debts.... then he decides if the filer is entitled to a no asset or asset case....

Creditors may attend the 341 meeting to question the filer about things and the debt they hold against them.....

A Motion to Dismiss and and Adversary Complaint are two entirely different things.

A Trustee or US Trustee can file a Motion to Dismiss your bankruptcy if they discover your case papework is incomplete, has been filed incorrectly, and/or if their is substancial evidence of fraud or abuse.....

An Adversary Compalint is issued by the Trustee to take assets from the filer for resell........ or a Creditor may file an Adversary Complaint saying the own the asset..... (such as happened in my case - my title on my home was not recorded, thus I owned it free and clear (banks loss)..... Trustee filed an Adversary Complaint to take it and Bank filed one saying they owned it. In turn the Trustee filed an Adversary Compalint against the Bank "taking thier interest" in the unsecured debt to they had control of the asset to sell it....

The court can seize your assets, but they have to file the correct paperwork thru Adversary Complaints with the Court to get them....... and the Court has to approve it. In my case, the seized my interest in the home, and the banks interest in the home and sold it to pay the creditors who were secured.


Adversary Complaints and Motions to Dismiss or other Motions filed cost extra in the filing process. Attorneys charge for each one filed.

[djk]

I don't go to jail for being a criminal like djk says, what am I missing here?

the possibilty does exisit for a visit to the big house. in cases like yours, where you up front and intentionally wish to challenge the rules, I suggest the best legal representation you can buy. like a 7 grand attorney for a 3 grand boob job. makes sense, huh?