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**jane taylor** · 05-19-2006, 09:29 AM

We filed end of Feb. and our plan hasn't been confirmed yet. Last day for objections is 6/5/2006, but my understanding is that a creditor can object any time after that and it is up to the Trustee to decide if they have a valid reason to object (such as not being given proper notice). Our attorney says that our plan will likely go up some as we are proposing 0% to unsecured creditors. Also, my husband got a big raise and I know they will take some of that. Trustee will ask for tax returns at the end of the year and will most likely adjust accordingly. So, yes, they probably will take some of your commission.

Don't know about the mortgages or IRA.

So far this 13 has been okay. We've had some unexpected car repairs, but have been diligent in saving a little each month to cover them. We are stashing away a little money here and there.

Good luck to you. This forum is awesome!! Most everyone is informative, kind, and supportive. There are always a few jerks, but then, they keep life interesting and give us somewhere to direct our aggression--LOL!

Do keep us posted and, oh, don't EVEN worry about the 341 meeting like I did. It's a piece of cake. Let your attorney do his/her job.

jane

**bobby125** · 05-19-2006, 10:51 AM

Does the overall plan go up?

for example, I commit to $743 times 54 months is $40,122

they can come back later and say no, make it $60,000?

**SinkingFast** · 05-20-2006, 12:16 PM

You would use PACER to track your BK case thru the initial process. Once your plan is confirmed, you probably would switch over to checking the National Data Center. That will show your plan payments coming in and the disbursements out.

About the Means Test, paystubs don't really matter. You saying you had no commission for half the time which isn't usual for you. It's strictly what you made the 6 months prior to filing is what you made, annualized for BK. You will be asked about anticipated increases in income, but I wouldn't state a certain dollar amount or % for commissions were I you. That's not a regular source of income that you can routinely count on. It comes when it comes and doesn't when it doesn't. So, in that case, I'd probably let sleeping dogs lie. If your attny isn't worried about it, then you shouldn't either.

Taking on a Roth IRA may not be such a good idea. If you get confirmed, then open a Roth IRA, and the Trustee finds out about it someway, it could get you into a lot of trouble. ALL of your disposable income is supposed to be going into plan payments. The type of saving that Jane's talking about is envelope type. They didn't spend as much one month for food, or clothes, or whatever as usual, so they have tad left over here and there.

As you get raises in pay, thruout the duration of the plan, your payments can increase. Generally, the Trustee will want to see your income tax returns every year that you're in the plan. The only way increases in payments will shorten your plan time is if you're in a 100% payback plan. Otherwise, payment increases just increase the amount you repay to the Creditors.

Some people are able to come outa BK with higher credit scores. Too many variables to say how your Credit Score will be impacted. If you're able to maintain your mortgage or car payments outside of the 13 payment plan, you'll have positive reporting tradelines thruout the duration of your Ch 13 plan.

Also, just a FYI, in case your attny did not explain it to you. The only new debt you can take on while in a Ch 13 payment plan is for a mortgage or a car payment. You have to be in the plan for a year, and you have to get approval in advance from the Trustee to seek either type of loan.

I am curious about one thing tho. How did your attny arrive at a 54 month plan? People under the Median can get 3 yr plans. Most everyone else will be in a 5 year, or 60 month plan.

**bobby125** · 05-20-2006, 05:03 PM

Sinking Fast, I really appreciate your feedback. It means a lot to me and I can see you have experience here on the board.

I am unsure of how she came up with the 4.5 year plan, I am located here in Georgia and I am above the median.

I am not looking to secure any loans anytime soon, so that will not be a problem for me, my loan on my rental property is up in 3 years, so at that time, I may look into the idea of selling it and paying off the 13 balance if I can, but that is later on down the road.

One of the best things about the 13 is that they are allowing me (or so my lawyer says) to give back another rental property that I am updside down on and is negative cash flow each month.

If I can follow up on one of your comments.......I am very concerned about the chance they could raise my monthly payment, I was under the impression that once the amount was confirmed that it was fixed......how much should I be confirmed about this possibility? My lawyer and I came to some real "sketchy" numbers, especially with my wife (she is not filing but I put down expenses for her, but my records are real good because we use quicken).......I am rambling on now, but my main concern is that they will look back and say I could pay more.............chances?

finally, and once again, this is in the future, should I consider the possibilty of filing seperate from my wife? I had been recieving no tax returns but now I am claiming married and 4 (b4 i put expempt to help ends meet) and I do have the 2 large mortgages, I am concerned they may see a large return or large combined income and freak out, so maybe my wife should claim the kids and file seperately?

anyways, as you can tell, just real nervous about filing, I know it is the right thing to do, but I wish the payment was fixed or shall I say the final payback amount was fixed, almost like I shouldnt want to make money because I will owe more back??? (I owe $85 ccards and $12 car and am paying back $743 times 54 which is close to $40k)

any thoughts would be appreciated, I am signing the papers tuesday.

**aa06a47** · 05-20-2006, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by bobby125

Sinking Fast, I really appreciate your feedback. It means a lot to me and I can see you have experience here on the board.

I am unsure of how she came up with the 4.5 year plan, I am located here in Georgia and I am above the median.

I am not looking to secure any loans anytime soon, so that will not be a problem for me, my loan on my rental property is up in 3 years, so at that time, I may look into the idea of selling it and paying off the 13 balance if I can, but that is later on down the road.

One of the best things about the 13 is that they are allowing me (or so my lawyer says) to give back another rental property that I am updside down on and is negative cash flow each month.

If I can follow up on one of your comments.......I am very concerned about the chance they could raise my monthly payment, I was under the impression that once the amount was confirmed that it was fixed......how much should I be confirmed about this possibility? My lawyer and I came to some real "sketchy" numbers, especially with my wife (she is not filing but I put down expenses for her, but my records are real good because we use quicken).......I am rambling on now, but my main concern is that they will look back and say I could pay more.............chances?

finally, and once again, this is in the future, should I consider the possibilty of filing seperate from my wife? I had been recieving no tax returns but now I am claiming married and 4 (b4 i put expempt to help ends meet) and I do have the 2 large mortgages, I am concerned they may see a large return or large combined income and freak out, so maybe my wife should claim the kids and file seperately?

anyways, as you can tell, just real nervous about filing, I know it is the right thing to do, but I wish the payment was fixed or shall I say the final payback amount was fixed, almost like I shouldnt want to make money because I will owe more back??? (I owe $85 ccards and $12 car and am paying back $743 times 54 which is close to $40k)

any thoughts would be appreciated, I am signing the papers tuesday.

Yes, unfortunatly making more later will more than likely increase your payment. The general rule I believe is about 5-10% in a year, they don't get too excited over, but that depends on your income. (10% of 100K is different than 10% of 30K).

I have a question, if your worried about your payment going up, is that because the $743 dollar payment your showing you know deep down is low? Yes, your payments can go up prior to and after confirmation. My trustee wanted 20/month more and told my attorney the plan could get confirmed within the week...and I quickly said ok.......well, it didn't get confirmed, he want's more information.

You attorney will firm the numbers up for you when you go in. If he "sketched" them together very hastily, just be prepared for them to be different when you go in to sign the papers. Also, make sure you can defent each and every one of them. He should be very close as long as what your telling him is the truth.

Once you get confirmed, someone would have to object and prove why the payments should be higher. That could be the trustee if he finds income you were hiding, the creditors, ......etc. If your not being honest on your expenses / income statement, most trustee offices have some sharp people pouring over the documents, they might catch them.

**SinkingFast** · 05-20-2006, 07:34 PM

I don't mean to sound crass at all Bobby, but,......... Did you Consult with more than one attny?? If not, you might wanna chat with a few more. Did your attny come up with that payment amount after running a Means Test and comparing Schedule I to Schedule J?? Or did that attny just take your Net and summarily start deducting expense amounts??

You can file BK seperate of your wife. There's a point on the Means Test where the none filing spouse's income drops out of the calculations. If your credit histories aren't closely intertwined, your wife may be able to maintain her good credit history. Hubby and I have been married for 25 years, always had joint everything. If one of us filed, we'd take the other one down with us anyway.

The downside of Ch 13. You're subject to the Trustee's rules for the duration of the plan. If the Trustee decides to raise your payments due to increase in income, then that's what happens. If someone dies and leaves you an inheritance, the Trustee takes it. If you hit and win playing the Lottery, the Trustee will take it. Up to the total, 100%, amount you owe at that time. You want to buy a car, you have to be in the plan for a year first, and you have to get the Trustee's approval first.

**bobby125** · 05-21-2006, 08:43 AM

dont let me give you guys the worng idea, i think the $743 number is fair. obviuosly $40,000 is not $100,000 so I am "excited". My attorney has been nothing but great and we have poured over the numbers, its just that my wife is a realtor and some of her expenses are gas, etc......I am just concerned thats all, on one hand i do expect more commission in the future, but on the other hand, I was having no taxes taken out so my net was higher, no that i am taking taxes out, my net will be lower. also, with my wife being a realtor, her commissions can vary as well. either way, if they take more money than i guess it would be warrented since i would be taking in more

one of the major surprises is how much i love my attorney because i hear so many horror stories about others, they are charging me the filing fee of $389 but say the rest of their fees will come out of the plan? there name is berry and associates and they are in atlanta, ga

if you guys dont mind, i will post an update hear once i file.

$743 will be a stretch but i can make it, much more and i dont know. it is almost like if i make more, it wont matter bc they will take it anyways....i guess i will cross that bridge when i come to it, bc thats not the worst thing that could happen!

**bobby125** · 05-21-2006, 08:44 AM

note: my wife uses quicken to track all our expenses and that really paid off on this, as we were able to document everything instead of guesstimnating

**SinkingFast** · 05-21-2006, 12:05 PM

Ah! I got it now!

And I gather that your wife is just starting out in Real Estate? Hence the no commissions for a few months, but now the commissions are starting to come in. If so, I understand that. I remember reading somewhere that you really need to be able to support yourself for at least 6 months when you first start doing REA. It takes at least a couple of months to establish yourself, and then it's about a month from the time of the first sale until the commissions start to come in.

I think I'd let that commission thing stay as it is for now. If your wife makes it big down the road, then address the commissions. Until she get's established and starts turning 2, 3, or 4 houses every month, REA could be a real rollercoaster.

**aa06a47** · 05-21-2006, 12:11 PM

I agree bobby, when your in a chapter 13 it seems like what is the use of making more money, it will just go to the trustee. Glad you have a good lawyer that you can trust.

Remember, you'll have some good months on your 13 where your utilities are less than average, etc., and you should sock a little money away in savings for that.

**bobby125** · 05-21-2006, 02:33 PM

aa what happenned at the motion to deny meeting, anything? did you get your payment settlled upon?

**bobby125** · 05-21-2006, 02:38 PM

i am filing but not my wife, but yes her commissions are definately concern, as she has started to pick it up so to speak, but I have avergaed about $2500 gross commissions over the past few years, however, over the last 6 months, the first 3 months (i.e. nov dec jan) i only made $250 total, thats what has me worried because the last 3 months it went back up to the $2500 mark and that is what is really normal, but those first 3 months really avergaed it down, that is primarily why i filed now, because of those 3 months, i didnt know about the increasing payments, etc.

i cant understand it, so if i get a $5000 tax return, they can take it away and I still owe the same monthly payments for the same length of time? i really need to talk to my lawyer, because she made it sound like that would come off the balance

man, this crap is so nerve racking, no wonder so many fail to complete the plan!

better than where i am at now though

**SinkingFast** · 05-21-2006, 02:56 PM

Any income tax refunds you receive, the Trustee takes while you're in Ch 13. Income tax refunds go into the plan. But the only way it reduces your time in the plan is if you're in a 100% payback plan to start. Otherwise, it's just extra money the Trustee gets to distribute to Creditors. And to line the Trustee's pocket as well, of course.

Same thing with inheritances, lottery winnings, you name it. Any kind of financial windfall you get while you're in an active Ch 13 plan, the Trustee will take. Until, you get to the 100% of debt payback level. The Court is not gonna take more than you owed total when you filed.

You can adjust your withholdings somewhat to increase your Net and decrease your income tax refund. But either way, the Trustee will get a piece of the money. One way, it's all at once. The other way, it's a little each month.

**aa06a47** · 05-21-2006, 04:26 PM

Originally posted by bobby125

aa what happenned at the motion to deny meeting, anything? did you get your payment settlled upon?

Not yet, lawyer is out of town I think she said until Tuesday or Wednesday. I have written her my "response" and mailed to her for her to look at. When she gets back in town, I am hoping what I have given her is enough to settle with the trustee with no increase in payments. In a nut shell, that's what it is turning into, wanting a few more dollars.

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Filing Chapter 13 Tuesday, A few last minute questions.....Advice Appreciated

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