401 k

just a question.. does anyone know My mom is 7 years away from retirement and she filed chapter 13.. The trustee wants her to stop paying into her 401k for the 5 years. Can the stop her from this? This will effect her retirement dramatically and she wont be able to retire

thanks for any info..

joey

I guess it depends on the trustee. My husband and I were not told to stop our contributions. However, the money we contribute is not taken into account when figuring our disposable income. If we want to continue our contributions we have to make cuts elsewhere. Tried that for a couple of months and then decided to take our contributions down to 1% at least for now.

If you have loans on a 401k, it is considered an expense because you are required to pay it back.

I am sorry to say and tell you that the trustee can do that; life in chapter 13 can be harsh

In chapter 13, all your disposal income goes to paying back the creditors, and it gets worst, while your mom is in chapter 13, almost all financial win fall is to go to the creditors such as; life insurance proceeds, inheritance, lottery winnings, substantial wage increases. Personal injury awards you generally may keep.

Chapter 13 is complex, and we would need more information about your mom’s case in order to give you sound and accurate advice.

Good luck,
bkbiker

My attorney said the trustee/judge in my district allow up to 3% for retirement planning. However, with that said, they did not allow some expenses that I understand other posters have had with no issues.

I don't think the trustee can keep her from contributing, however he can not allow the expense. As others have said, if she wants to save, she will have to cut back in other areas to do so.

I seriously doubt these last 7 years will make or break your mom's retirement. The maximum contribution for this year for someone over 50 is $20,000. Can she contribute that much every year for the next 7 years? The way retirement savings works is through compound interest. That means in order to maximize the retirement benefit, contributions must be large at an early age.

If she only contributes a few thousand a year, the compound interest for the next 5 years won't amount to much.

I seriously doubt these last 7 years will make or break your mom's retirement. The maximum contribution for this year for someone over 50 is $20,000. Can she contribute that much every year for the next 7 years? The way retirement savings works is through compound interest. That means in order to maximize the retirement benefit, contributions must be large at an early age.

If she only contributes a few thousand a year, the compound interest for the next 5 years won't amount to much.

I would probably disagree with you some on this. Investments in the stock market can pay back hugh gains and hugh losses. Let's say we are more realistic and she can save 5K a year x 7 =35K. If it is invested in a good company stock, that investment could be work 70-80K or more in that time period. Not nothing to sneeze about. (caution .... It could also be worth 5K as well).

Every little bit helps when your retired living on a fixed income. Even if it appreciated zero, it could provide a good cushion for retirement.

my .02 cents...

I have to agree with Jenny here......it is not going to make much of a difference in the long run...

If she makes a $100,000 (???) and contributes 3% and they match 3% that is $6,000 over 7 years and lets say it makes some crazy gains, and is worth $80,000 then that would last her what? in retirement, maybe 2 years?

Plus, if she was going to get gains like that back, then she could just take what she has now and put it in that fund, and be fine...

either way, 7 years of 401k savings is not going to make a retirement, just cant happen

as chapter 13'ers, we can plead and complain about a lot of things, and I hate the system as much as anyone, but if we are going to fight, lets be realistic, 401k's are great, but it is not going to save or cost anyones retirement over 7 years

If anything, the younger the chapter 13, the more effect it is going to have, I am 28 and lets use the same example, that money will probably triple by 60-65 years old, so it will really cost be what (say $100k and 3/3%, thats $21,000 of my own money plus $21,000 match, times 3 is $125,000ish)

yeah, I would say that sucks!


BTW, I am in Georgia and they said no 401k contributions for me, which really blows, cause like I said, using $100k number, %3 is $3,000 a year and that could be worth 8times as mucn in 30 years given the match and growth

I think 3% should be the minimum allowed, but this is what sucks, there are no regularities across the states, heck even across trustees

my lawyer basically told me that if I got this certain trustee (and there are only 3 here) that my life would be absolute hell over the next 4 years

i didnt get him

anyways, i am done ranting......:clapping:

What your mom has already accommulated in her 401k plan is protected in bankruptcy.....

NOW she's in a position in a Chapter 13 that she cannot contribute to it until she is out of the Chapter 3 plan..... She is not allowed to "pay herself" thru a 401k plan..... she has to give all available monies to the creditors.......

my last 0.02 on this subject....

jennie and bobby, I understand what your saying, but your assuming that she will take all that money out when she retires....she probably won't. If she retires when she is 60, good chance these days she will live another 20 years...maybe more, unless she is in poor health. 42K (using bobby's example) in today's invesment money could have a good impact on her retirement.

I agree that it would have been better to have had the 42K invested already when she was 30. Good chance she will never be a 401k millionare starting this late in life....however, she isn't throwing her money away by any means investing it now.

I seriously doubt these last 7 years will make or break your mom's retirement. The maximum contribution for this year for someone over 50 is $20,000. Can she contribute that much every year for the next 7 years? The way retirement savings works is through compound interest. That means in order to maximize the retirement benefit, contributions must be large at an early age.

If she only contributes a few thousand a year, the compound interest for the next 5 years won't amount to much.

my .02 cents...

I have to agree with Jenny here......it is not going to make much of a difference in the long run...

If she makes a $100,000 (???) and contributes 3% and they match 3% that is $6,000 over 7 years and lets say it makes some crazy gains, and is worth $80,000 then that would last her what? in retirement, maybe 2 years?

Plus, if she was going to get gains like that back, then she could just take what she has now and put it in that fund, and be fine...

either way, 7 years of 401k savings is not going to make a retirement, just cant happen

If anything, the younger the chapter 13, the more effect it is going to have, I am 28 and lets use the same example, that money will probably triple by 60-65 years old, so it will really cost be what (say $100k and 3/3%, thats $21,000 of my own money plus $21,000 match, times 3 is $125,000ish)

yeah, I would say that sucks!




Why did either of you even bother to post??!! Without telling your age, Bobby, I could tell you are both young and do not know the true costs associated with retirement. You also do not know the true added benefit of monies from a well invested 401K plan.

We put 5%/yr into Hubby's 401K. Hubby's company also contributed a matching $1/$1 up to 2%. So that was 7%/year. We're talking less than $5K/yr saved.

The funds were invested rather aggressively. Mostly stocks and high risk ventures over the safe mutual funds stuff. In 5 years time, the small investments of Hubby and the company grew to in excess of $100K. Then the company sold out to another company. But that's the savings we realized in that short amount of time.

So I know from personal experience that's potentially in excess of $100K more that JMW's Mom could have to tap on a per month basis to make ends meet.

That extra $100+K could be the difference between having a medigap insurance plan and paying major medical expenses out of pocket.

That extra $100+K could be the difference between having to decide, "Do I buy food or pay for my meds?"

That extra $100+K could be the difference between living on your own or living with adult children.

I'm not there yet. Retirement that is. But Mom is. She lives with us. Because she can't afford to live on her own. Medigap insurance, doctor's bills, prescription drugs all eat every penny of her Medicare money every month.

So you tell me,......... Could investing an additional 7 years make a significant difference??!!

HELL YEAH, it could!! :dry:

just a question.. does anyone know My mom is 7 years away from retirement and she filed chapter 13.. The trustee wants her to stop paying into her 401k for the 5 years. Can the stop her from this? This will effect her retirement dramatically and she wont be able to retire

thanks for any info..

joey

Just curious. Would your mom qualify for a 7? Actually it's probably a little late unless she converts since she already filed. If she can qualify, but she's trying to keep an exempt asset she maybe better off letting it go (unless of course it's the roof over her head or the wheels that take her to work) and saving money after a 7 discharge.

I dont think that I communicated what I was thinking...:blink:

I agree that the 401k is the best thing you can do, I was more or less trying to say that it may be a little much saying that not contributing to a 401k for 5 years would cost her retirement. I dont think retirement can be "gained or lost" in a 5 year period........

I wish we could contribute to ours, but I had to stop because of the lawyer. Kind of sucks, BUT, if I had to choose one or the other, I would choose the 23% plan I have and no 401k

I agree with most of what everyone said, think I went off on a tangent and some thoughts are hard to communicate on "the boards". I doubt 5 years of 3% will break her retirement, maybe she will have to work another 3 years or so.....but then again, if she is not in a 100% payback, then how much would she have to work

Either way, I hate no 401k for 5 years myself, but I will take it:clapping:

We put 5%/yr into Hubby's 401K. Hubby's company also contributed a matching $1/$1 up to 2%. So that was 7%/year. We're talking less than $5K/yr saved.

The funds were invested rather aggressively. Mostly stocks and high risk ventures over the safe mutual funds stuff. In 5 years time, the small investments of Hubby and the company grew to in excess of $100K.
So you invested $25,000 and ended up with a balance of $100,000 in just 5 short years? Please tell us the name of your broker or the name of the fund you invested in that quadrupled your money in 5 years.

You know a lot about bankruptcy, and you should keep posting your knowledge. You don't know jack about investing.

I dont think retirement can be "gained or lost" in a 5 year period........



Maybe not, but I sure lost a hunk with my broker investing my funds aggressively like SinkingFast said in her post in the late '90's. Then dot.coms and tech stocks crashed and I was too heavy in those areas...

So you invested $25,000 and ended up with a balance of $100,000 in just 5 short years? Please tell us the name of your broker or the name of the fund you invested in that quadrupled your money in 5 years.

You know a lot about bankruptcy, and you should keep posting your knowledge. You don't know jack about investing.

It was less than $25K, Miss YOU CAN'T DO SIMPLE MATH.

The 401K was with Fidelity.

Have you heard of a little old company called Fidelty, Miss YOU DON'T KNOW JACK AND YOU SHOULDN'T BE HERE??!!

Just because you're a liar doesn't mean other people are.

Inverstors choose where the money goes in a 401K. You want more money faster, you choose stocks and riskier ventures for RAPID GROWTH. Anyone can do it if they're investing 100% very aggressively with a good 401K Plan.

And Fidelity is the best 401K plan we were ever with. T Rowe Price couldn't even come close to matching the growth we saw at Fidelity.

Maybe not, but I sure lost a hunk with my broker investing my funds aggressively like SinkingFast said in her post in the late '90's. Then dot.coms and tech stocks crashed and I was too heavy in those areas...

Been there done that too, BG. Late 1980's we lost our butts. Stocks tanked then too.

Hubby changed jobs and we cashed out because we needed money for the move. Boy did we loose big time on that one.

I am kind of interested to know how $25k turned into $100k over the past 5 years as well.....

I have fidelity, which funds? 400% return is something, I would like to know so I can do what you did:blush2:

adding....

your avergae investor is not going to turn $25k into $100k in 5 years, probably .001% do

so $25k is not going to break retirement, and yes $25k in 25 years might be $100,000 but that arguement can be applied to anyone in bk and 401k. If anything, it hurts the younger person more because they have more time for it to grow.

from your post, I can tell you must be old, because us youngin's dont know jack:clapping:

But my stocks soared and I had 10 incredible years of growth in the late great bull markets of the 90's. One lovely stock (US Robotics) was bought at $10/share and my broker sold it 18 months later at $60/share and bought some others that did almost as well. Now with the techs tanked for a while, I don't know if you can even find US Robotics anywhere except penny stocks......thanks to med expenses a few years back, had to live off my investments for a while and have none now. But they made it possible for this widow to support her family on social security benefits and part time teaching for many years.

"from your post, I can tell you must be old, because us youngin's dont know jack"

Read a few of Jenny's posts, and see that SinkingFast was reacting to her constant negativeness to almost every idea on the threads. Why don't you find an investment calculator in one of the financial areas on aol or msn, etc, and see how fast this could all add up. Remember, each year more is added to the pile that already has grown with that amount of interest reinvested, and it grows to far more than a simple $5000/year x .05% interest. The result will not be spectacular at the lowest rates seen in conservative funds today, but there have been funds growing at closer to 15% and at 30% when I had my money invested.

Come back and make more posts when you've seen what is or is not possible, and don't post rashly without checking some facts.

you know, I shouldnt have posted about this above and now, I just want to say I understand where everyone is coming from, I was just adding my thought that while not being allowed to contribute to a 401k for 5 years of BK does indeed suck, I dont believe that given reasonable expectations of investment returns, that would not mean the difference between being able to retire or not retire in 7 years. I still believe that. Now if you want to say that if you put $5,000 in each year for 5 years and 2 years later that is going to be a $100,000, than fine, yes it is possible, but even then, an extra $100,000 still to me would not be the final say in being able to retire or not retire at that point. Is that $100,000 going to allow for retirement because she can live off it for 30 years?

I dont want to argue, and I do not want to be confrontational ir judgemental.

I love this site because I needed help in answering questions and I enjoy sharing information.

I believe that I saw this post and the reference to not being able to retire because of no 401k and my first thought was A. I cant see that being the difference between retirement and not and B. This is not what you should be worrying about at this moment. You need to focus on what your options are, what your payment could be, if you should do it, not no 401k would mean no retiring.

Once again, I am not here to cause trouble. Thanks to everyone for always sharing ideas.:) :) :)

bobbys girl, I made my post while you were making yours.....

apology accepted?

I didnt realize jenny and sinking fast had a history...

i do have to say this though....

yes, high returns are indeed possible, but to say that the next 5 years will not allow her to retire in 7 years in silly......


***Lets say she makes $6,000 a month and she puts in 3% and they match 3% and it grows 15% a year, in 5 years that would be $52,966****

**Lets say same example at 30% returns that is $76,000*****

How can that be "she wont be able to retire"


She wont be able to retire if she is not allowed to contribute 3% to her 401k over the next 5 years?

Tell me what I am not seeing? If she has a 401k already, she can still invest that money?

She is saying if not over next 5 years then I cant retire in 7 years?

How is that statement possible? Do you see the irrationality?

Is there anyone here that could tell me in good faith, that being allowed to contribute to a 401k over the next 5 years, will not allow them to retire in 7 years? Or what, work another year?

It is just way overboard on the statement, now I am back to not caring because people are being disrespectful like I dont understand 401k's etc. I am not going to feed into this posters beliefs and the insanity of the statement.

I am saying no it is not true and why is this what you are thinking of first, take a step back and realize that if she cannot retire in 7 years, it will not be because of the next 5 years 401k it will or will not be due to the fact of her current retirement savings

And don't give up on doing some retirement planning of your own. If at age 35, you put $5000 into a retirement fund every year until age 60, even at an average growth of 10% per year, that would be $588,249. So look ahead! There may be stinker markets in there for a few years, and some fab bull markets again to grow it even more!:)

The original poster was perhaps, as you think, looking at one little worry and not the whole picture. And maybe responding to a gripe his/her Mom made when worrying through this with Joey.

We put 5%/yr into Hubby's 401K. Hubby's company also contributed a matching $1/$1 up to 2%. So that was 7%/year. We're talking less than $5K/yr saved.
That means in 5 years, you've invested $25,000.
In 5 years time, the small investments of Hubby and the company grew to in excess of $100K.
It certainly seems like you turned $25,000 into $100,000 in 5 years.

What am I misunderstanding here?

Investing

Warren Buffett once said something like “he does not know anyone whom also knows anyone else whom has ever made continuous large gains in the stock market.

If you are in high risk mutual funds or stocks, you may experience breath taking increases in your investment over any short period of time, but sooner or later you will experience the heart stopping loses every trader fears.

Smart and conservative investment of your retirement money should return an average of at most 10% per year over the long term (50 years or so) so if that being the case your investment may double about every 6 ½ year. $10,000.00 invested when you are 20 years old might very well be worth $640,000.00 fifty years later. Also don't forget to factor in inflation; your real gain will be less.

Time and compounding of interest is really what counts.

Remember to live beneath your means and save once you exit chapter 13,

Good luck,
bkbiker

I am kind of interested to know how $25k turned into $100k over the past 5 years as well.....

I have fidelity, which funds? 400% return is something, I would like to know so I can do what you did:blush2:

It was 1992-1997 or maybe 1993-1998. Somewhere in there.

And, yes, if you consider 50 to be old, then we're old.

I don't remember the name of the fund. The deal Hubby's company set up had 5 alternates to invest among. We were "older" at the time. Looking for big ROI. So we went very aggressive. The fund we chose was all stocks and futures with a track record of huge returns. But that same fund had also suffered big losses when the markets went sour. The market cooperated and 5 years later when Hubby's company sold, that 401K acct was in excess of $100K. Timing IS everything.

You and Jenny are the kind of people that,........... If it hasn't happened to you or someone else you know personally, it cannot happen.

I'm done with this CRAP.

so you can tell me with a straight face that if this person is not allowed to contribute to a 401k over the next five years that that will break her retirement in 7 years?

5 years? make or break a retirment in 7 years?

$72,000 a year, 3% in 401k and 3% match

50% RETURN EACH YEAR, 50% RETURN EACH YEAR

That is $145,000 in 7 years.

That is what is going to make or break retirement? 5 years of contributions at a 50% return to net $145,000

Is that reasonable to you?

So is it the 5 years of 401k or the relying on the 50% return that is going to make or break the retirement?

And I know it could happen, right? 50%?

I AGREE IT COULD HAPPEN AND IF IT DOES AND THERE IS A CURRENT 401K BALANCE THEN THAT WOULD ALLOW HER TO RETIRE ANYWAYS

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE NEXT 5 YEARS OF CONTRIBUTING

NO REASONABLE PERSON COULD SAY RETIREMENT THAT IS 7 YEARS AWAY WOULD BE MADE OR BROKEN OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS OF CONTRIBUTING.

IT COULD BE MADE OR BROKEN BY THE ROI OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS BUT NOT IN THE ACTUAL CONTRIBUTIONS OVER THE NEXT 5 YEARS

IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN YOU ARE BASICALLY SAYING, YES IT COULD, THEY COULD GET 50% RETURNS BECAUSE IT HAS HAPPENNED AND THAT MEANS $145,000. WELL, IF THAT IS ALL THEY HAVE, THEN I DONT THINK THEY WOULD BE RETIRING ON THAT


I AM NOT A NEGATIVE POSTER, CHECK MY POSTS, I AM POSITIVE AND SUPPORT MOSTLY EVERYTHING, BUT WHEN I HEAR PEOPLE SAY THE NEXT 5 YEARS WILL RUIN MY RETIREMENT IN 7 YEARS, I HAVE TO SAY NOT TRUE AND LOOK AT THE FACTS, YOU MAY JUST BE THINKING THAT BUT THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

HOW COULD YOU SAY OTHERWISE?

REALLY, HOW?

You and Jenny are the kind of people that,........... If it hasn't happened to you or someone else you know personally, it cannot happen.

I'm done with this CRAP.

Once again, I never said it could not happen.

The poster said not contributing to a 401k over the next 5 years would not allow her mom to retire in 7 years.

I said that is not true.

I will give you 50% return over next 7 years and at 6% of $72,000 that is $145,000.

Is that enough to retire on?

Is it reasonable to assume 50%? Is that what would not allow her to retire? needing 50-200% returns in 5 years?

It would not be the next 5 years of contributing

I believe you have looped me together with Jenny, whom I now realize you have some sort of history with

I have tried to be the bigger person by offering an apology and explaining that I may have miscommunicated in earlier posts, but you have attacked me and suggested I should "know what I am talking about" before posting. I believe in this instance that I am correct and that the next 5 years of contributing to a 401k is not what the real problem is. It is either that the person does not undertsand the overall impact of contributions to the 401k over the next 5 years and how that will affect the bigger number, rather it is the current balance of the 401k and the ROI that will make or break the retirement and that if there is not enough there, then the next 5 years will not make or break it anyways

I respect your opinion and I hope you respect mine. I did not mean to disrespect your opinion and as I said in an earlier post, I may have been off base in some of my posts, but I truly feel this person (if they even really care) needs to undertand the facts and that they should not rule out bankruptcy due to the fact that they need the next 5 years of 401k contributions to retire, which is not the case, nevermind taking into consideration the amount of money they may be saving with BK

Like you said earlier in this thread. You are young.

You do not deal with the elderly and their issues.

Were you helping an elderly person decide which Medicare Plan D to sign on with last November/December??

Do you watch an elderly person with multiple chronic illnesses taking 20+ pills/day just to live??

Do you see an elderly person write out one check for a Medigap insurance plan that costs $300/mo out of pocket, knowing that Medicare and Medicare Plan D are taking another $100/mo out of their SSI??

Do you have to shop for the special diets, yes that's DIETS, of an elderly person. High Blood Pressure and Kidney Failure.

Do you take an elderly person to multiple doctors every month??

Do you watch an elderly person that has no monthly expenses to live (rent, utilities, phone, etc.) because they had to surrender their own home to live with Adult Children spend their remaining savings to pay all their medical bills?? While that elderly person HOPES they have enough money left to bury themselves when they die??

So you tell me,............ Can an extra $100K in retirement funds make a difference??

I know first hand it can.

An extra $100K, and my Mom would still be in her own home. Where she wanted to stay. Living on her own, like she wanted to live. Not loosing her dignity to depend on her daughter for the rest of her years.

Maybe next time you see your Grandparents, if they are still alive, you'll think about the cost of getting old.

Maybe when you look at your own parents, if they are still alive, you'll think about how much it's gonna cost them when their health begins to fail.

Maybe you should ask your parents or your Grandparents what their financial situation is?? You just see them smiling, happy to see you. If you have kids, maybe slipping your kids a dollar here and there from Grandma and Grandpa. Do you know how they really live?? Behind the smiles and the dollars for the grandkids??

You don't have a monopoly on life experiences, SF. Lots of people experience very similar things as you, and some even experience things you haven't.

I know it is not possible for you to have turned $25,000 into $100,000 in 5 years. You're lying, but I really don't know why. Maybe you just don't know how your finances work. You *are* filing bankruptcy after all.

Another weekend filled with drama,

On the stock market,

There is always opportunity to make huge gains especial back in the hay day of the 1990’s

Getting out at the right moment is the hardest thing one will ever do, most new investors become paralyzed with a down turn, and watch helplessly as their fortune goes down the tubes.

I followed this one mutual fund called RED OAK; started at $10 per share watched it go to $78 in the year 2000, almost bought it than, than watch it fall all the way down to $3 per share in 2002. I think it is de-listed now. There are thousands of similar stories in the market.

Remember first lady Hilary Clinton turned $1,000. 00 into $100,000.00

Well, I was one of those fools who thought I could beat the market and lost all my available money; ironically and thankfully I never touch my retirement funds invested in the boring Vanguard mutual funds; they sure are looking pretty now, un-touchable in bankruptcy to boot.

Well, having no money now, I am off to work to earn a few extra dollars

Take care,
bkbiker

SF

Why are you dragging emotions into this?

How could 5 years of 401k contributions make or break a retirement in 7 years?

How could it?

Please tell me

You don't have a monopoly on life experiences, SF. Lots of people experience very similar things as you, and some even experience things you haven't.

I know it is not possible for you to have turned $25,000 into $100,000 in 5 years. You're lying, but I really don't know why. Maybe you just don't know how your finances work. You *are* filing bankruptcy after all.

I turned 10K into 390K in 2 years (1998-2000) in the stock market day trading. I lost mine due to pure greed and improper tax planning with the capitol gains. I'm only posting that because you seem to not understand how much you can gain in short periods of time in a bull market. I've won and lost in the market.

Jenny, I find it very easy to see how SF turned 25K into 100K in the late 90's. If they were tech sector and or in there own company stock...very very easy to have doubled and even quaddroupled during that time. As a note, Fidelity handles 401k's for alot of companies....just because your in a Fidelity 401K through your employeer doesn't mean you only own Fidelity mutual funds.

My boss at work at not done very good planning for his retirement. He was setting on 160K in his 401K at work with 5 months to go before retirment. (this was the late 90's). He asked me what to do. I told him to switch to Fidelity Magellian fund. By the time he cashed out of it it was worth 250K (6 months at most it appreciated 90K). I also let him ride my day trading thing (we both worked nights). He started with 2K and in his 5 months of day trading with me, he was up to 10K.

I'm glad he stopped then. He knew when to stop, I didn't, that is why I'm here. LOL!!!

SF

Why are you dragging emotions into this?

How could 5 years of 401k contributions make or break a retirement in 7 years?

How could it?

Please tell me

Well, as I get closer to thinking of retirement (I'm 16 years away), I think I will find that these next 5 years of reduced contributions will make a hugh difference on my lifestyle in retirement. Only time will tell. There are no guarantee's in life or in investing.

However, with that said, after this 5 year period is over, I will be debt free except for my mortgage. I feel the debt I'm discharging would have been far more detrimental to my retirement than missing the 5 years contribution into the 401k.

Yes, I think the money she would/could invest in the next 5 years would help in retirment. It could be a good deal of money. However, if she was strapped with only being able to make min payments on unsecured debt, she is better off doing this.

I still believe that one should be allowed to contribute to a savings plan / 401k while in a chapter 13 bk. Chapter 7's get there fresh start almost immediatly and have no payback to creditors. If the Chapter 13 person is paying something back, allow them something.

Hi aao6a47,

Sorry to hear about your day trading loses, the market sure can be brutal, I am not sure what was worst, taking the beating of my life back in 2000 -2001in the stock market or this damn chapter 13 thing.

Well like you said, at least we will have a fresh start when it is over

I have to agree with you on not letting us chapter 13 filer contribute to retirement accounts, we need it as much as the next person, and all the chapter 7 filers are free to contribute the day after they file.

Yes Jenny, turning 25 grand into 100 grand only took a few months back in 1999

Take care,
bkbiker

You don't have a monopoly on life experiences, SF. Lots of people experience very similar things as you, and some even experience things you haven't.

I know it is not possible for you to have turned $25,000 into $100,000 in 5 years. You're lying, but I really don't know why. Maybe you just don't know how your finances work. You *are* filing bankruptcy after all.

Well, that's some strong verbage from someone who never tells anything about themselves. Calling another person a liar. You don't know me. You don't know where I came from. How I've lived my life.

Why are you here, Jenny??

You don't seem to have any financial difficulties at all and have all the answers to everyone else's problems.

Just because we're here now doesn't mean we didn't always not have money.

Guess you've never fell on hard times??!!

I know!! Doc10House didn't really make $200K/yr and live in a $350K house before he lost his professional license either. He lied and made it all up. We're all liars here. Every one of us. Except Jenny of course. Jenny always tells the truth!

Isn't that right in the Life According to Jenny book??!!

Hi aao6a47,

Sorry to hear about your day trading loses, the market sure can be brutal, I am not sure what was worst, taking the beating of my life back in 2000 -2001in the stock market or this damn chapter 13 thing.

Well like you said, at least we will have a fresh start when it is over

I have to agree with you on not letting us chapter 13 filer contribute to retirement accounts, we need it as much as the next person, and all the chapter 7 filers are free to contribute the day after they file.

Yes Jenny, turning 25 grand into 100 grand only took a few months back in 1999

Take care,
bkbiker


Good to see some people remember stock market history here, BKBiker.

We got pinged really bad in 1987. We lost our butts. I can't remember how much we put in, but we walked away with $700 I think. Glad to have that much left.

We were just down right lucky in the '90's. Timing was good. Fidelity had the right mix. Everything fell into place and we made a few bucks.

SF

Why are you dragging emotions into this?

How could 5 years of 401k contributions make or break a retirement in 7 years?

How could it?

Please tell me

Because I deal with it every day. A person who's elderly and in the same spot. Coulda had more but doesn't. And watching what little savings she does have go down every day.

If she had an extra $100K, her life would be much different. She'd still be independent instead of having to swallow her dignity and live with her adult daughter and family.

When you live thru/with that, then we can chat. When you see the sadness in your parent's eyes because they have to live with you or they can't buy food and their meds. When they can't put the roof over their own heads anymore without you. Until that happens to you and your family, you'll never understand.

AA

I lost about half my debt in daytrading last year. That is what put me here, I was up $40,000 and then, well you know the rest.......

I think daytrading is just like gambling, very little difference

OKAY, WHAT WERE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

Oh yeah, the poster....

What did he say?

His mom is retiring in 7 years, and now due to the fact that she cannot contribute to her 401k over the next 5years, that this will DRAMATICALLY AFFECT HER RETIREMENT AND SHE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RETIRE.

Lets assume she is 58 and is planning on retiring at the age of 65 and she makes $72,000 per year.


OPTION ONE: SHE SAYS THAT NO 401K FOR 5 YEARS WILL DRAMATICALLY AFFECT HER RETIREMENT AND SHE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RETIRE AND SAYS NO TO CHAPTER 13 BK.

SHE PUTS IN 3% AND THE COMPANY MATCHES 3%

ON A 10% RETURN SHE WOULD HAVE $27,877 IN 5 YEARS

ON A 50% RETURN SHE WOULD HAVE $91,415 IN 5 YEARS

DURING THIS 5 YEARS, SHE PAYS OFF HER DEBT

OPTION TWO: SHE SAYS THE CHAPTER 13 IS WORTH IT AND FORGET THE 401K. SHE MAKES PAYMENTS OF $600 TO HER CHAPTER 13 PLAN (THIS IS A GUESS? ESTIMATE...)

WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT SHE WOULD HAVE HAD AT THE END OF FIVE YEARS GIVEN EITHER A 10% OR 50% RETURN, SO NOW THE QUESTION IS...HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO MAKE THAT UP?

WELL, IF SHE WAS PAYING $600 A MONTH, SHE CAN NOW TAKE ALL THAT MONEY AND PUT IT TOWARDS THE 401K, SO WE WILL SAY THAT $600 IS WORTH $900 (NO TAXES ON 401) SO LETS SAY SHE CAN DO 15% AND THE COMPANY MATCHES 6%.....

NOW REMEMBER, AT THIS POINT SHE IS STILL 2 YEARS AWAY FROM RETIREMENT....

AT A 10% RETURN FOR THOSE TWO YEARS OF 15% CONTRIBUTIONS, SHE WOULD HAVE MADE $33,323 OR A LITTLE MORE THAN WHAT SHE LOST BY NOT BEING ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE 3% DURING THOSE 5 YEARS ($27,877)

AT A 50% RETURN, SHE WOULD HAVE TO WORK AN EXTRA YEAR. (TWO YEARS PLUS AN EXTRA YEAR, FOR A TOTAL OF 3 YEARS OR AGE 66)

THAT 15% CONTRIBUTIONS WOULD BE WORTH $101,227 OR A LITTLE MORE THAN THOSE 5 YEARS BEING LOST AT 3% ($91,415)


NOW....TO ADDRESS SOME FORTHCOMING QUESTIONS......

*YES I KNOW THAT THE MONEY PUT IN THE 401K DURING THE 5 YEAR NON ALLOWED PERIOD WOULD NOT BE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO GROW AFTER (I.E. BOBBY, IF SHE WOULD HAVE PUT IN THE 3% DURING THE 5 YEARS, THAT WOULD GROW LATER ON). I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT??? THE SAME ARGUEMENT CAN BE MADE FOR MONEY SHE ALREADY HAS....WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY ORIGINAL POST.......

IT WILL NOT DRAMATICALLY AFFECT THE RETIREMENT...............

WE JUST SAID THAT BEING ALLOWED TO PUT IN 3% WITH A 3% MATCH WOULD NET CLOSE TO $30,000 AT A 10% RETURN, HOW CAN THAT BE DRAMATIC?

AND YES, IS IT POSSIBLE TO GROW THE MONEY 50% AND HAVE A $100,000????????

YES. IT IS. I DO NOT DISPUTE THAT.

BUT........SHE WOULD BE ABLE TO GROW ANY MONEY SHE ALREADY HAS AND REAP THE BENEFITS OF THAT

IF SHE HAS $100,000 ALREADY, WELL SHE CAN GROW THAT TO $200,000 OR $500,000

I DO NOT SEE HOW THE NEXT 5 YEARS PLAYS INTO THAT ARGUEMENT.

NOW, I WONT COMMENT ON IF SOMEONE IS THAT CLOSE TO RETIREMENT THAN THEY SHOULD NOT BE IN SUCH HIGH RISK INVESTMENTS.




FINALLY, IF YOU WANT TO SAY, HEY SHE COULD PUT 6% A YEAR INTO THE 401K AND GROW IT 50% TO A $100,000 OR EVEN 500% TO $500,000 THEN I WILL SAY YES, THAT WOULD DRAMTICALLY AFFECT IT. BUT THAT IS LIKE SAYING SHE COULD GO TO VEGAS AND WIN A MILLION


BOTTOM LINE, IF SHE HAS A $600 PLAN AND DOESNT CONTRIBUTE TO THE 401K, ALL SHE MUST DO IS PAY FOR 5 YEARS, THAN KICK IN 15% THE NEXT 2 YEARS AND SHE WILL HAVE MADE UP ANYTHING SHE MISSED OUT ON, ASSUMING A 10% RETURN

IF THE MARKET ROCKETS DURING THE 5 YEARS SHE MISSED? WELL, IT WILL NOT KILL HER, BECAUSE THE BULK OF HER MONEY IS (OR SHOULD BE) IN THE ACCOUNT ALREADY. I.E. $100-$300K

IF NOT, THEN I DO NOT THINK IT IS THE NEXT 5 YEARS OF CONTRIBUTIONS THAT WILL DRAMATICALLY AFFECT HER RETIREMENT, IT IS HER CURRENT FINANCIAL SITUATION


AND FOR SINKING FAST, WHO DO YOU THINK I AM, SOMEONE THAT KNOWS NOTHING OF FAMILY AND THE ELDERLY? I AM MARRIED, HAVE TWO KIDS, MY PARENTS LIVE LESS THAN 5 MILES AWAY, THEY ARE BOTH OVER 70 AND THEY BOTH WORK, AND THEY WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO RETIRE

BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT YOU KEEP SAYING

"OH $100,000 WILL DRAMATICALLY AFFECT HER RETIREMENT"

WELL, 5 YEARS AT 50% RETURN WILL NET $90,000 AND IT IS NOT REASONABLE TO EXPECT THAT, NOR WHOULD SOMEONE THAT CLOSE TO RETIREMENT TAKE THAT RISK, AND EVEN IF THEY WERE ABLE TO GET 50% RETURN, WHICH AGAIN, IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY, YES HIGHLY, LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE MARKET, HOW MANY 5 YEAR PERIODS HAVE NETTED 50%, THAN SO WHAT? THEY CAN STILL GROW THEIR CURRENT BALANCE THAT MUCH AND IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS $100,000 SHOULD NOT BE THE MAKE OR BREAK AND DEPENDANT ON 50% RETURNS



WOW, I WONDER HOW LONG THIS POST IS!

bobby..has your eldery parents considered filing BK? I'm sure if you told them 100K wouldn't make a difference in there life right now, they would tell you that you were wrong. I don't know what they make at there jobs, but a 100K invested in a money market savings account would provide them with 450 / month in intereest without touching the principle. Some investment companies can give higher rates of return for 100K investments.

Anyway, think this is one of those subjects we all agree to not agree.

I have started a new thread on how to prepare for retirement if the nest egg isn't big enough. Post ideas

bobby..has your eldery parents considered filing BK? I'm sure if you told them 100K wouldn't make a difference in there life right now, they would tell you that you were wrong. I don't know what they make at there jobs, but a 100K invested in a money market savings account would provide them with 450 / month in intereest without touching the principle. Some investment companies can give higher rates of return for 100K investments.

Anyway, think this is one of those subjects we all agree to not agree.

I have started a new thread on how to prepare for retirement if the nest egg isn't big enough. Post ideas

i still dont see how 5 years of 401k contributing is $100,000???

anyways, my dad told me he did file for bk many years ago

they are not terrible, they do clean houses, but it is very light work, i think they enjoy it....kind of people that need to work

anyways, yeah lets just end this thing, I think I stated what I thought already, that it cant be the next 5years, it has to have more to do with their current situation


AGREE TO DISAGREE

'OKAY?:D

If you turned $100,000 into $700, SF, that explains plenty. You need a new financial adviser. Feel free to post a rant in a really big font.