Chap7 in 10-99 but needs to file...

[Bhmm]

Please help

I filed 7 in october 99. But now needs to file again. Would like 7 but with new laws I can't.
Questions:
1. Can I file 13 and then in one or two years convert to 7 once eligible?
2. Current income is below median for State. Will I be allowed to file 13? Also current disposable income is not enough to pay 10%. Basically it's negative after subtracting all the allowed expenses ( means test). Can file 13 at all?

Thanks.

[keepmine]

You need to speak with an attorney. One caveat to a 13 is, creditors can't get less in a 13 than they would in a 7. So, if you have equity in something beyond what your state exempts in a Chapter 7 you'd likely be looking at a 100% payback to unsecured creditors.
Yes, you can convert to a 7 once 8 years have pased since your last filing date.
Is it possible to hang in there until 8 years have passed?

[Bhmm]

I do not have anything of value or with equity.
But can I convert the

[Bhmm]

So once I file 13. I can not convert it to 7 until 8 more years after 13 filiing? I will be eligible for a 7 in one year, can in one year convert to 7 or filing 13 will restart the clock?
What about the disposable income question? Any idea? Thanks for the help

Note I do not have any equity to preserve. the only reason of filing 13 is because seven is out of reach for another year

[keepmine]

You can convert your Chapter 13 to a 7 in 07. You just have to wait until 8 years after you filed your last Chapter 7.
You can file a 13 even if your income is below the median for your state. Very likely your unsecured creditors will get much of anything.
See an atorney and get all of your options explained.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

BH, ask several attorneys if you can file a chapter 7 sooner rather then later. From what I got from the below information it states that the 8 year "clock" begins for filings after October 17th 2005. It seems an old law filer may still be able to file in the 6 year time frame and not 8. Not that anyone wants to be here in 6 or 8 years. Sorry you have to do this again.



ABI Chat:
Question:
Is there a retroactive effect of the Act time lines to the
Code filed cases? For instance 6 year bar on refilling chapter 7 has been changed to 8 year bar. If the case is filed now will the 6 year or the 8 year rule apply to cases that go to discharge if filed prior to October but the discharge order is entered after October 2005?

Answer:
Judge Waldron:
This amended provision [727(a)(8) - 8 year limitation] appears applicable only to cases commenced on or after October 17, 2005. The previous case law should continue to apply to the amended 727(a)(8)- the date the case was commenced , not the date of a discharge, is the controlling date for calculating the [ 6 or 8 year] time period.

[Bhmm]

Thanks! Wow I hope this will be the case.

Anyway the the other option will be to go to a 13 but then have a good reason to convert to 7 a year later.

Thanks again.

[keepmine]

That interpetation is not correct.
The ABI Q&A references what happens if a case is filed prior to bk reform but, the discharge comes after 10/17/05. BK's filed prior to that date were old law. I'm an example. I filed on 10/06/05 and was not discharged until 3/14/06.
It also means if you filed a 13 prior to bk reform taking affect and needed to convert to a 7 you can do so under the old laws.

[FoolAndHisMoney]

That interpetation is not correct.
The ABI Q&A references what happens if a case is filed prior to bk reform but, the discharge comes after 10/17/05. BK's filed prior to that date were old law. I'm an example. I filed on 10/06/05 and was not discharged until 3/14/06.
It also means if you filed a 13 prior to bk reform taking affect and needed to convert to a 7 you can do so under the old laws.

From what I got from the ABI reference is the 8 year rule only applies from 10/17 and forward. Any filer pre 10/17 can probably file in 6 years. At least that's what I think the judge said.

BH or anyone that needs to know you should ask several attorneys and if you could be so kind as to let us know. Most of us are assuming and that's not reliable.

Hopefully there's very few of you back in after 6 years.

[Wizardree23]

I am in the exact same situation. I filed in May of 2005 and also need to file again because of health issues my wife went through. I was told by my attorney that I cant file ch. 7 until May of 2007, it has to be 8 years. He said I should file a 13, but by the time it comes around to convert my 13 to a 7 in May of 2007, I will be over the median income by about 20,000. I am pretty sure they will count my household income and not just mine. I myself will be under for a family of 4, but with my wifes income I will be over.

[keepmine]

Any filer pre 10/17 can probably file in 6 years. At least that's what I think the judge said

No, it's not what he said. The Q&A revolves around a bk that was filed prior to bk reform but would not be discharged until after 10/17.

[alwaysmordrbils]

Just as an FYI for anyone still under the old laws who might look at this. I am currently going through this. I filed a chapt 7 in Oct 2000 then a 13 in Oct 2005 due to medical expenses. Due to more medical expenses that occur monthly now I converted to a chapter 7 in Nov 2007. Today I recieved a letter from the US Trustee saying that i could not receive a discharge because 6 years had not passed between filing dates. Even though my conversion date from the 13 to a 7 was Nov 2007, they look at the Oct 2000 to Oct 2005. Hope this saves others from grief of having to reconvert back to their 13. New laws from my understanding now are about the same, with it being 8 years rather than 6. Good luck to all!!!

[HHM]

I am not certain about the current state of the case law, but the statute, itself, simply reads (paraphrasing), a debtor cannot receive a discharge in a chapter 7 if they had received a discharge in a case filed within 8 years before the date of filing their petition. (Section 727 (a)(8) ). That statute makes no explicit distinction between old and new law cases.

You can always "file" BK whenever you want, the question is whether you will receive your discharge.

And as another poster pointed out, the conversion issue does not work to alleviate the time line because your date of filing for a conversion from a 13 to a 7 is retroactive to the date you filed chapter 13 (and not the date you converted).