How much income over monthly payment do you need to qualify for a Ch 13?

[CoBelle]

Need a clarification please:
To file a 13, one needs a 'regular income sufficient to pay the plan payments'.
My ex is trying to dismiss by saying that I don't have enough income.
I have enough to pay the monthly payment amount from social security.
I have IRA assets to pay my living expenses.*

My ex's brief insists that I have to have enough money to pay not only my monthly payment but whatever living expenses I included on my petition to qualify. So he multiplied my expenses and monthly payment x 60 months and said that I won't have enough.

(*In addition to the social security and IRA assets, I have a huge amount that ex was supposed to give me from our retirement that was due 5 years ago...but I might have to sue to get the money. )

The hearing is Monday, so please, if you have any insight here re how much income you have to have to qualify (payment is $454/mo) please let me know!

[Pandora]

to get your DMI - you need to do your schedules, which yes, includes monthly expenses. You cant say "I get $1000 monthly, plan payment from suit says $450 payment, so that leaves me $550 to live on a month". You have to do it the other way around:

Income - Expenses = DMI

Trustee wont approve a plan that is not feasible.

remember too that anything you cannot exempt that you want to keep (i.e., Ch. 7 liquidation rule) you either forfeit or pay back into your plan, therefore increasing your payment.

ETA: I wanted to ask why you're seeking a 13 if your only source of income is social security and IRA assets? Are you over median?

[CoBelle]

Hi Pandora...My petition was filed in June. Using previous income, my payment was $454/mo based on a monthly income of $8k/mo. My income stopped in August.
Starting Sept, I have about $1200/mo income including Social security.
In the interest of getting confirmed, I said I was willing to use my IRA assets/investment income to pay all my living expenses..until I find a job, get more alimony, get the $900k that my ex is withholding from me (ordered to pay to my retirement in 2005).

My assets are all exempt, but I want to buy out my ex's share of my house (less than rent) and I was advised that a 13 would facilitate that better.

My question is different from what you initially thought. I'll try to state it better: Do I just have to convince the court that I have enough cash to pay my plan payment (using SS)
and that I can live off of my retirement monies OR will the court require that I have enough in my retirement to pay for my sheduled expenses in addition to my plan payment. (Monthly expenses based on $8000/mo income were about $7500 times 60 months or $450,000? (That's what ex's lawyer is saying that I need to have to qualify)

[Pandora]

CoBelle - no I understood what you meant Maybe I didnt word it correctly.

I believe that given your income dropped - yes you would have to use the 1200 you currently receive vs. the 8K you were receiving. If your expenses were 7500 on your schedules, leaving you $454 monthly pay back and now you're only 1200.... I dont know how you'd be approved, even if you use your IRA as "income". Guess it depends on how its structured. Will you draw monthly from it? Interest? Penalties? Payback? I think thats the question that need to be answered. ETA: What would be your total monthly income from SS and your IRA? I just caught that you stated "about $1200 including SS"
- so does that $1200 include your IRA draw?

I dont think you can go off of "what if" scenario's though, meaning even though you're supposed to get $XX from ex, more alimony, or if you get a job - because its not in the "here and now". It'd be like my CH. 13 Trustee saying "well your husband has the potential to make $150K year salary due to his last job, so therefore I'm basing your payments on that"

Make sense? Or at least thats how I'm viewing what you're saying -if it's not correct, let me know

$454 x 60 = 27240 payback in CH. 13 if thats what you're currently paying - I understand what your ex's lawyer is doing by adding in expenses of 7500, but are those your actual and true expenses for your house / monthly living? ETA: If 7500 is true expenses, and say your SS + IRA equal anything less than actual expenses - then your plan wouldnt be approved as you wouldnt have any $ to fund a 13. You'd have to file Ch. 7.

[CoBelle]

You know, it isn't the trustee I have to worry about.....it's ex's motion and the judge ruling on it.
But I think I can prove that Ihave enough money to pay for both the plan payment and my monthly expenses for 5 years even tho there is no way that I'd use up all my retirement funds
over teh next 5 years, and I realize that I don't even have to 'for real'.

ONe thing is taht the trustee won't allow me to keep my investment proeprty and that takes $2000/mo off of expenses.

Thanks for the head's up!
Funny tho, no one else can guarantee that they won't lose their job in the next year or that they won't up and die....so making me show enough $$$ for 5 years is a little bit ridiculous ...at least to me.