Announcement

Collapse

Forum Rules (Everyone Must Read!!!) (updated: 04/28/2015)

Welcome to the Bankruptcy Forum. Bankruptcy (BK) Forum is known as BKForum.com and will be referred to as BKF hereinafter. In order to ensure a long term success of our vibrant community, we have established certain rules and guidelines to which everyone must adhere to. Please take your time to carefully read our rules, before you start to participate in the community.

Things you agree to do:
BKFORUM.com (BKF) users agree to use the search function before starting a new thread. This prevents duplicate discussions and allows for better organized topics.

All BKF users agree to read the sticky posts which may be available at the top of a forum page. These Sticky posts often contain valuable information. They may also outline more rules and guidelines specific for that particular forum, stickies are put in place by that forums moderator(s) or admin(s).

Things you agree not to do:

All BKF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BKForum.com you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed.

All BKF users agree not to discuss, engage, or encourage any behavior or activity which violates the law. Discussion of drugs, violence, murder, theft, vandalism, fraud or any other issue which could be used to help individuals break the law is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to "bump" old threads, unless there is a specific benefit to the community by doing so. But in most cases, please don't post in very old threads, instead start new threads.

All BKF users agree not to attempt/use another members account. It is against BKF rules to use any account other than your own. Impersonating another member will result in an immediate ban. It is also against the rules to open more than one account in your own name without permission from a moderator or administrator. If you have been banned for any reason, it is against the rules to open another account. If you were banned temporarily and you are caught using another account you will be banned permanently. Choosing a moniker which is similar in either sound or spelling as a moderator or administrator is strictly forbidden.

All BKF users agree not to private message any moderator, admin, or other member with questions related to their personal circumstances (Questions about the forum or issues with the forum are ok). This forum only works when members share their experience and insights with everyone.

Things you agree not to post:
All BKF users agree not to post any derogatory/racist/or sexist remarks. This includes attachments, links and all information contained within posts, signatures, and avatars, failure to comply with this rule will result in a permanent ban.

All BKF users agree not to post any copyrighted or trademarked information without the express written permission of the owner(s) / proper citation of source.

All BKF users agree not to post any real names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses, social security numbers, or any other personal details (their own or other people's).

All BKF users agree not to post links, pictures, attachments, videos, or the like of pornographic content, objectionable material or extreme violence, whether cartoon or real.

All BKF users agree not to use BKF for advertising purposes without a written contract between yourself/company/agent and the administration of BKF. Blatant advertising will result in a ban.

All BKF users agree not to spam the forums. Spam includes but is not limited to posting erroneous, non-relevant-useless, off-topic, or meaningless posts. Spam may also include posts which contain no text, or large areas of blank space between lines. Simply posting emoticons without text is considered spam. BKF is the largest bankruptcy message board and all the content is intended to help other users. Please help us improve the quality of our forum by making sure that your posts are well-worded, spell checked, grammatically correct and syntaxed.

Regarding actions of moderators and administrators:

The forum is no place to air out your opinion or be judgmental of our staff and its capabilities.

All BKF users agree not to abuse or mistreat moderators or administrators. It is against BKF rules to post any information regarding bans or any other action taken by a member of the moderating or administrative team. If you wish to discuss bans or warnings please do so via PM. To place a complaint against a moderator, send a PM to a super moderator. All Moderators are equal, any decision made by a moderator must be adhered to. If a moderator tells you something you do not like, do not go to another moderator looking for a different answer. If you are caught doing this you will be banned. The moderators work as a team and respect the decisions made by their peers and will help enforce them unless an administrator tells them differently.
If you have an issue with how the forum is run, then notify one of our administrator and we will look into the situation. We have in the past and still do appreciate any input that you offer this forum. But critical input and/or judgmental postings towards the staff will result in you getting banned.


Should you find a thread offensive or out of line, then notify a Mod in a PM so they can evaluate the situation and do the action deemed necessary.

All moderators do have active "other" lives outside of the forum and help moderate this forum in their spare time throughout the days and weeks.

If you have a problem with a member or Mod follow the proper channels of reporting it.

BKF reserves the right to delete any posts which contain anti-BKF comments or discussion. Any bashing of moderators or administrators, or any of their discussion or actions will also be deleted, and the responsible posting party(s) will be banned. Any public anti-BKF advertising, communication, or posts on another forum will result in permanent bans as well.

All warnings and bans are decided by individual moderators and administrators. Warnings are preferable to bans however, for serious offenses and repeat abusers bans will go into effect. The length of the bans can vary from several hours to permanent.

All messages posted or sent including through PM are the property of BKforum.com.

All BKF users agree not to advertiser on the forum (Niether by posting, private messaging or using your signature). If you are a company/attorney/legal adviser wishing to advertise on the site or sell a product, you must contact the head administrator and inquire about our advertising packages.

All bankruptcy related opinions expressed on BKForum.com are those of their authors and not necessarily of BKF, its staff or representatives.

You agree not to copy any material/post/content from BKF without written permission from our head administrator .

By posting on this forum you agree to these terms and conditions, including any punishment deemed appropriate by moderators or administrators in the event of an offense.

Administrators/Moderators can change these rules at any time without prior notice.
See more
See less

"Sorry, you never mailed back your mod agreement"

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • "Sorry, you never mailed back your mod agreement"

    Ok, I'm freaking out here. I have a plan, but looking for some advice.

    Per Mich Law, I had a mediation mtg in July with servicer and their lawyer. They proposed a great mod that puts my payment back to what it was before they raised it.
    We were grateful and said we'd look for their 'agreement documents'.

    We got a packet for financials and sent it. (no mod docs sent yet)

    Called regularly, sent incremental updates as requested. (no mods docs sent yet)

    Finally, they said "resend everything!" ..so I did. (no mod docs sent yet)


    They've scheduled a sheriffs sale, so I called the law firm to ask why. They said I never sent back the mod agreement from July, and my account was kicked out of the mediation process. I assure you I never received one. I said "please check your records..I never signed for one". They said they don't send it registered.

    1.) Why would they tell me all this time to resend docs and never once tell me I failed to send their mod documents back? I think it was never sent.

    2.)So I called a local law office that I know deals with this stuff. They say this ALWAYS happens and servicers never send the mod agreement. They said they get this story twice a day.

    The lawyer says she's only seen mods work when you drag the companies into court and force them to go with the mod. Her flat rate is 2,800 to file the suit. They say they've done this 8 to 10 times already with success. Since 2,800 is only 2 months mortgage payment, I'm thinking of moving forward with this plan...it's roughly the same amount I'd have paid anyhow and gives me a shot at having this mod happen.

    Thoughts?

    -t
    Last edited by Tom_Mi; 11-01-2010, 12:06 PM.

  • #2
    Tom,

    I hope someone else will chime in here for you soon. DH and I have been dancing with our Loan Servicer for almost a year now. I say go with your gut. What exactly are they going to do for you for their fee?

    CB

    Comment


    • #3
      They said that with a lawsuit, the lenders will cave and go with the mod. The fee isn't a guarantee we'll win but they've done this more than once.

      I don't see what I have to lose. A sheriff sale makes me a renter for 2yrs, while the mod lets me park here and move on my terms.

      Comment


      • #4
        Do you have any documentation from them as to their offer?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by cantbreathe View Post
          Do you have any documentation from them as to their offer?
          Only what I handwrote during the conf call including people on both sides. I don't think they'll deny the call or the offer, since the state governs it. I think they're just trying to hose me by claimiing they sent the docs. (but I can't understand why they'd have strung me along for so long)

          Comment


          • #6
            Tom_Mi

            I may be wrong here, but reading through your posts, you seem to know what you are talking about with properties. I say go for it! If that what your gut is telling you to do? You are knowledgeable forthwith about the pros and cons......you trust the attorney..What have you got to lose? Maybe getting their hand slapped pretty hard by an aggressive lawsuit will wake them up to the reality that stringing homeowners along isn't the thing to do. I would send off a little email to Attorney General Cox as well!

            Good Luck My Friend and I will be watching for an update!

            Best Wishes
            CB

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tom_Mi View Post
              They said that with a lawsuit, the lenders will cave and go with the mod. The fee isn't a guarantee we'll win but they've done this more than once.

              I don't see what I have to lose. A sheriff sale makes me a renter for 2yrs, while the mod lets me park here and move on my terms.
              You cannot make a lender mod your loan - lawsuit or otherwise. The terms you agreed to when you signed your note are the terms they must stick by - I dont know why your lawyer is telling you otherwise. If this were the norm, then people who file BK would be able to cram down the value of their 1st mortgage, and they cannot. What reasoning is your lawyer using in claiming they can "force a mod"? Given your house was already foreclosed upon and you didnt reaffirm it - there's even less reason for the lender to mod anything.

              Unfortunately you will have to prove you never received anything - the burden of proof is on you, not the lender I'm afraid. Too many lenders string people along saying "just make partial payments" or "its in the mail" - and it isnt. Never trust anything your lender says regarding a mod unless they can provide you with a tracking number. Most mod documents are sent via Certified or Sig. confirmation (both trial documents and perm. docs) - its the actual signed COPY of the perm loan mod document that doesnt get sent with any sort of tracking but just through regular USPS system in most instances.

              Comment


              • #8
                Just got a big punch in the gut.
                They've said "I never returned the docs", but now they agree they never sent them. Why is there no legal recourse for this?



                My post-call note on Jul7:

                Hi BANK_MEDIATOR,
                Thanks again for your willingness to help us with a great workout option last Monday. I'm looking forward to receiving the required docs in a couple weeks. (or as soon as they're available).

                I'm wondering if you could forward this message to <A LADY> in your office.
                She has requested a couple items be faxed to her. I'm going to send it asap, but was wondering if you can forward this message ahead of my fax.

                2009 Taxes: My accountant has been waiting for some 1099's from last year. She is preparing my taxes now, and I will have a signed copy for <A LADY> by Monday. (very sorry for the delay)

                Copies of any lease agreements: I no longer own any rental properties, so there are no lease agreements to be provided.
                Thanks again, I look forward to hearing from you soon.

                Regards,
                TOM_MI
                ************************************************** *******

                Just now the guy sends me this: (we did talk about reaffirmation and he said he'd let me know)
                Mr. K, I believe there to be a bit of misunderstanding – possible on both ends.

                During mediation you questioned the reaffirmation of debt should you accept the loan modification: in doing a loan modification we require that you reaffirm the debt. I only ask because if memory serves me correctly you were either unwilling or apprehensive should this be a requirement.
                Would you like to move forward with the loan modification and reaffirmation of debt?

                Please advise ASAP.
                Thank you,

                ************************************************** **********
                So, they said I was denied long ago because I never returned their docs, but didn't tell me. Now they say the never sent me any docs, but would I like to reaffirm? (17 days before the Sherriff Sale).
                My response is here:



                Hello,
                I'm fairly confident <FORECLOSURE FIRM> can provide a transcript of our call.
                You stated that typically reaffirmation is 'not' required for reworks, and that I would hear back from you if there was a problem.
                I was to receive 'sample' documents immediately, with the originals to sign in the next 'couple weeks'.

                The foreclosing law firm has said that I've been denied for refusing to return documents. <A LADY> has told me today that I've been denied for never having sent back any documents. I think we all can agree that those documents were never sent to ME...and that nobody has told me during this entire process that there was a problem.

                Tomorrow morning I have an appointment with my attorney. I (or they) will give you my opinion at that time.

                Regards,
                Tom_MI





                ************************************************** **********
                His Response was simple: (you can't intimidate a bank)

                I look forward to your response.
                Thank you,

                <MORTGAGE GUY>

                Comment


                • #9
                  there is no legal recourse because if HAMP is what you're trying to do - HAMP was never made "law" but is a guideline for lenders to follow should they choose to participate. Its strictly voluntary unless your loan is owned by Fannie or Freddie, then it is mandatory. If an in-house mod is what you're doing, then that too is not mandatory, its up to the lender if they want to mod or not.

                  Sorry you're having to find out this way. So many people have been strung along regarding modifications (HAMP or otherwise) and most do not get them even if they do qualify under guidelines, which there should be recourse for the homeowner, but there isnt - because again, it was never made into a law for lenders to follow. We were one of the lucky ones as we got a perm HAMP mod, but it was hell to get it. It seems that so many people arent getting approved any longer for any type of mod and its insane.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank You , Pandora. ( I actually have a grand daughter named "Pandora")


                    It just seems like there is something that can be done to these lenders who string along home owners for months and sometimes YEARS!!!! We ourselves have given up the mod payment idea, at one time desperately hopeful , back and forth paperwork nightmare .....and are surrendering our home in bk. Our lender called us before we were a block away from leaving our 341 mtg asking us to "fax them ALL of our BK schedules to move forward with their mod" WHAT???? I mean REALLY???

                    Tom_Mi, I would still write a letter to Atty General Cox. If nothing else, it may make you feel better to take some kind of "pen" action. Just a thought.

                    Keep us informed. Will you?

                    CB

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well put Pandora! You see what I see. Banks aren't your friends. They only have to be half right to stick it to you!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks all. I think they would do the mod, they're just making me reaffirm to get it..which I can't do on a place this underwater.

                        What makes me angry is that the ultimatum comes 16 days prior to a sheriff sale, so I won't have time to get a bridge loan with someone else. (I'd qualify).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Pandora View Post
                          there is no legal recourse because if HAMP is what you're trying to do - HAMP was never made "law" but is a guideline for lenders to follow should they choose to participate. Its strictly voluntary unless your loan is owned by Fannie or Freddie, then it is mandatory. If an in-house mod is what you're doing, then that too is not mandatory, its up to the lender if they want to mod or not.

                          Sorry you're having to find out this way. So many people have been strung along regarding modifications (HAMP or otherwise) and most do not get them even if they do qualify under guidelines, which there should be recourse for the homeowner, but there isnt - because again, it was never made into a law for lenders to follow. We were one of the lucky ones as we got a perm HAMP mod, but it was hell to get it. It seems that so many people arent getting approved any longer for any type of mod and its insane.
                          I can share that I have been involved in mediation through my state's program for over a year. There have been so many continuances and extensions that we have exceeded the time limit in our state's mediation law and there is no end in sight. The banks can keep doing this forever - they will be passing on their attorney's fees to the homeowner.

                          Aside from the mediation I also hired an attorney to fight the foreclosure in an effort to improve chances for a modification. The only thing I gained was huge bill for legal fees - almost $10,000!

                          So now I have an incompetent attorney pursuing me for fees. Incompetence isn't because I didn't get the modification, but due to malpractice..... (a story for another time)

                          My take is that there are many folks who are trying to get their fingers on any part of the mortgage meltdown bonanza ($$$). That includes attorneys as well. They can be persuasive and prey on our emotions related to wanting to save our homes.

                          I can't advise you how to approach your situation, but be careful!

                          dasmom

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thought I'd post an update....\
                            First, Michigan is a foreclosure by advertisement state.
                            Michigan's new law gives you a 90-day stay at NOD and guarenteed talk/mod offer with bank. If I prove I can afford a mod and they don't offer one, they must foreclose Judicially. (but the law firms know 1000 tricks to avoid the costly judicial option).

                            So a guy at the bank emailed me (above) admitting they never sent an offer. This should be a problem for them because the law firm had proudly told me they could foreclose by advert. because I never sent back the docs that..that we both know they DIDNT SEND. So I called the law firm this morning and asked how they plan to continue this without their justification being valid. They said they're 'talking with their client about it' (which means they know they're busted), and will call me back tomorrow.

                            I reminded them that their sale is scheduled for the 17th and they don't have a legal justification for it. ..and that my counsel was prepared to file a challenge on Monday. I suggested they send me something to sign (or not), or cancel the sale and prepare a judicial proceeding...and that in either event the sale date doesn't give me much time to read & accept/refuse any offer.

                            They said they'll get back to me tomorrow.

                            I'm sure I'm still screwed, but this is where we're at. I'll post their clever excuse for continuing the sale when they call tomorrow.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hello again, just posting another update. No word back from the Atty/Bank. They're probably preparing docs to send me (that they said they sent me in July).

                              So I checked my credit and my score had dropped back into the low-mid 600s. Turns out they've been reporting on my discharged home since the discharge date (Apr 09). And the last 3 months have been +120s. I faxed their law firm a screenshot of my equifax account, asking them if the penalty is 1,000 for the one account, or if it's 1,000 for each month of the 19months they've been reporting on the discharged home. They probably won't be intimidated by the question, but it makes me feel good to send it.

                              I'll probably hear about my fate in the next 24hrs.

                              Comment

                              Unconfigured Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X