VERY wierd

[Lajazz947]

I have a 1st with Wachovia $732,000

I have a HELOC with WF $50,000

House is worth maybe $750,000, $700,000 at a fire sale

I wrote WF offering to settle

They called telling me they would not as they were in first position

I said impossible

They said they were

I called Wachovia who said no, THEY were in first position

I called my attorney who pulled recorded deeds that show that for some reason WF recorded a deed before Wachovia

I am going to write each a letter asking them for verification of their position.

I assume that if WF is indeed in a first position that I have more bargaining power with them.

Should I ask for a deed of trust from each entity?

I am still in their BK department so no activity from either bank.

Advice?

Thanks

[HHM]

Why would you have MORE bargaining power of WF is in first position? The complete opposite is true. If all they are owed is $50K and they are in 1st position, there is absolutely, positively, no reason for them to settle or otherwise do anything, they are fully secured.

[tjs1970]

i agree fully with HHM

[AngelinaCatHub]

Originally Posted by HHM

Why would you have MORE bargaining power of WF is in first position? The complete opposite is true. If all they are owed is $50K and they are in 1st position, there is absolutely, positively, no reason for them to settle or otherwise do anything, they are fully secured.

Yes HHM, but does the recording date or the date of the signatory for the mortgage be valid? I did not record my quick claim deed to my Mother's place until after she passed away. A year later than the making of the document. 'Hub

[tjs1970]

with mortgages, it is "who gets there first"

[limage]

But he can sue the title company

[Lajazz947]

Originally Posted by HHM

Why would you have MORE bargaining power of WF is in first position? The complete opposite is true. If all they are owed is $50K and they are in 1st position, there is absolutely, positively, no reason for them to settle or otherwise do anything, they are fully secured.

I mis-typed, I meant more bargaining power with Wachovia. That's what my attorney told me.

Should I request all that stuff, deed, title, loan doc's etc from each bank?

[last2cents]

Lajazz - keep in mind that as of this month - Wachovia Mortgage and Wells Fargo Mortgage are the same company

(didn't you get the letter from Wachovia?)

It may not make a difference who got there first as far as the recording of the deeds of trust. It's all one entity now.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

Originally Posted by last2cents

Lajazz - keep in mind that as of this month - Wachovia Mortgage and Wells Fargo Mortgage are the same company

(didn't you get the letter from Wachovia?)

It may not make a difference who got there first as far as the recording of the deeds of trust. It's all one entity now.

It seems like they would have told him they were the same company when he called each both of them? Of course, they could just be customer service reps??

[Lajazz947]

Originally Posted by last2cents

Lajazz - keep in mind that as of this month - Wachovia Mortgage and Wells Fargo Mortgage are the same company

(didn't you get the letter from Wachovia?)

It may not make a difference who got there first as far as the recording of the deeds of trust. It's all one entity now.

I know, what's interesting is that they keep on dealing with me as if they were two seperate entities.

I still speak with the two different banks, two departments and they seem to be battling.

What happens now? Wachovia seems to be frinedly, WF I have heard is a nightmare to deal with.

I also have a pick a pay loan from World savings which I think is the type that they want out of the most.

[last2cents]

Gotta love the pick a pay - perfect for us self employed idiots.

One of the reasons that Wells snagged Wachovia is the pick a pays. Wach dumped all the employees that knew how to work them...and got into a hell of a lot of trouble. Wells swooped in and picked them up.

You can rest assured that your loan is still owned by Wach / Wells - no third party investors to deal with. Can't say the same for the 2nd - because it was originated by Wells.

Legally (at least as of 11/1) they're the same company. They are still operating separately however, and probably will be for the next several months. This could be a golden opportunity - the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

Also - yes, Wells is a horrible institution to deal with. The good news is that a LOT of World employees wound up there.....and I understand that if you actually get one on the phone, they are WAY more sympathetic to former World customers (I've got the inside scoop - my sister is a former World underwriter, worked for wells for a while post layoff).

First things first - has Wach given you a mod offer yet? I did mine before filing, and got a principal reduction along with a fixed rate (40 years - but hell, I could be dead before that).

If not - you might want to approach Wach, and say "hey look - you and wells are now in this together for $X.XX over and above the actual value of the property, why don't we do a prinicpal reduction to get the balance where it belongs? I keep making payments against that amount, you take a bit of a bath, I keep the house, and you don't have to worry about selling it in a depressed market?"

Essentially - get them to totally write off the 2nd, and take a loss on the 1st.

Just rambling here.

[Snickers]

Originally Posted by limage

But he can sue the title company

Not to send this topic off track, but wouldn't it be Wells Fargo who had a claim against the title company? (As opposed to OP.)

[Lajazz947]

Originally Posted by last2cents

Gotta love the pick a pay - perfect for us self employed idiots.

One of the reasons that Wells snagged Wachovia is the pick a pays. Wach dumped all the employees that knew how to work them...and got into a hell of a lot of trouble. Wells swooped in and picked them up.

You can rest assured that your loan is still owned by Wach / Wells - no third party investors to deal with. Can't say the same for the 2nd - because it was originated by Wells.

Legally (at least as of 11/1) they're the same company. They are still operating separately however, and probably will be for the next several months. This could be a golden opportunity - the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing.

Also - yes, Wells is a horrible institution to deal with. The good news is that a LOT of World employees wound up there.....and I understand that if you actually get one on the phone, they are WAY more sympathetic to former World customers (I've got the inside scoop - my sister is a former World underwriter, worked for wells for a while post layoff).

First things first - has Wach given you a mod offer yet? I did mine before filing, and got a principal reduction along with a fixed rate (40 years - but hell, I could be dead before that).

If not - you might want to approach Wach, and say "hey look - you and wells are now in this together for $X.XX over and above the actual value of the property, why don't we do a prinicpal reduction to get the balance where it belongs? I keep making payments against that amount, you take a bit of a bath, I keep the house, and you don't have to worry about selling it in a depressed market?"

Essentially - get them to totally write off the 2nd, and take a loss on the 1st.

Just rambling here.

THANK YOU!!!!!!

This is the advice that I have come to expect from the forum.

I am still in the BK dept at both places. I should be out in 3 weeks or so. I have missed the last 5 payments and banked the money as more than one employee has told me that they would likely forgive the past due payments. Who knows?

Hell , I would take 100 year mortgage. I'm not going anywhere.

Yes, I am a self employed idiot too.

[limage]

If your Wachovia loan is a pickapay option loan, that may explain why it is second lien position? I would think that any loan that grew in principle would agree- if not be required- to subordinate.

[albacore44]

Originally Posted by limage

If your Wachovia loan is a pickapay option loan, that may explain why it is second lien position? I would think that any loan that grew in principle would agree- if not be required- to subordinate.

Yes, but it don't work that way. it's based on the date the deed is recorded with the county. perhaps LAJAZZ took out both mortgages in a very close time frame