adversarial proceeding

[Meh]

The more i talk to my attorney, the more I see he want to settle this or charge me 200 an hour to defend it and i still may lose. Is it possible to retain another attorney at a different firm for the sole purpose of the AP or even rep myself at the AP?

[Meh]

I didn't personally update anything, but I did put my attorney on notice and I was told they they did ammend it asap. I want to say that the asset was ammened probably around the same time that the AP was filed. I was notified that the bike was recovered on 8/17. I picked it up on 8/18 and notified my attorney of the same on 8/18. We were having problems coming up with a value for the bike given the condition etc so that may have delayed it being updated, but I assume it was updated. Where in pacer should I look to see if it was added?

[shabam]

Regarding the forth point, did you end up amending your petition and listing the asset? They could have get you on that. Furthermore, the UST could take an interest in the case as potentially concealing assets. I have seen cases where following a AP, the UST becomes aware of something and then pursues the debtor for dismissal.

[Meh]

Mainly because she called it rent. She call and say "im going to be short, can u pay me rent this month"? so I just became accustomed to calling it that but thinking about it, you're 100% right. There was no contact until i moved out in may of 2008 into my own apartment where i paid my own rent

[poorold]

I don't understand why you consider assisting your mother with bills when she was short of cash the same thing as paying her rent.

You had no rental agreement or legal obligation. They were voluntary payments on your part.

[Meh]

That's what it sounds like to me too. But I don't feel fear, im pissed off. Their facts are wrong. November of 2008 is when they converted the loan from secured to unsecured. I purchased the bike in november/early october of 2007 and paid on it for a year until they decided to cnovert from secured to unsecured. I feel like my attorney is going to try and push me to settle and give up the bike but I don't feel like they can prove anything they have listed. I don't feel like I did anything wrong. I don't feel like i lied. They know how much I make, i gave them copies of my paycheck stubs, they are housed in my office and are a sub company of my employer. It's a CU that is ONLY for employees.

[shabam]

Based on the details you provided, it sounds like they want you to be scared and settle with them prior to going to court.

[music12]

it doesn't sounds like they have any piece of evidence against you, only allegations.

the only thing might be the insurance refusing to cover something, but that's an allegation that you misrepresented something to the insurance, not to the credit union.

[shabam]

I see, so really count four is the main one. Count one is standard. Count two is grasping straws if they are going on the rent alone, as you continued to make nearly 20 months worth of payments. However, they may try to show that you took out loan 2 and 4 at a time when you were insolvent. Count three is interesting, what do they mean the insurance refused to pay?

Did you exaggerate your circumstances in any of the applications? Unless you are now paying $1K in rent, I highly doubt they can use it as a misrepresentation. How do they prove you were paying rent? Unless you lied about your circumstances on loan 1 and 3, I wouldn't worry about those. A large bank would be hard-pressed to pull that off, how is a little CU going to do it. You also have the police report about the bike, so it's not as if you hid it.

[Meh]

Here is the meat of the AP via Microsoft Word:

Defendant filed a Ch 7 BK petition on June 4th 2009.
Prior to the filing of the petition, defendant obtained the following loans from Plaintiffs:

Loan 1 was made in March 2007. The balance on that loan is $3966.19

Loan 2 was made on November 2008. The balance on that loan is $5,777.09. This loan was for the purchase of a motorcycle.

Loan 3 was made on June 2007. The balance due on that loan is 4,943.63

The defendant obtained a forth loan on Feb 25th 2009 in the amount of $1,000

Count one
Defendant borrowed the money from Plaintiff by representing that Defendant would abide by the terms and conditions of the various notes and agreements and repay all the amounts borrowed.
At the time Defendant obtained the loans, he did not intend to repay Plaintiff. Defendant intentionally defrauded Plaintiff by accepting the benefits of the loans, representing that Defendant would and could repay the monies borrowed when in fact the defendant never intended to repair the obligations as evidence by the defendant’s conduct.
Plaintiff relied upon defendant’s misrepresentations and allowed defendant to obtain the loan proceeds and use the line of credit. Such reliance was based, in parts, on the information provided by defendant on the applications.
Plaintiff’s reliance on Defendant’s misreprenstaion that, by obtaining and using the loan proceeds and line of credit, defendant would repay the amounts borrowed under the terms and conditions of the notes and agreements was justified.
As a result if defendants actions, plaintiff sustained damages in the amount of 15,686.91
By reason of the forgoing, defendant obtained money from plaintiff by false pretenses, false representations or actual fraud.
Wherefore, plaintiff requests this Court to enter a judgment declaring the sub of 15686.91 to be non-dischargeable, together with interest and costs.

Count Two

Defendant submitted an application before obtaining the Loan 1, Loan 2 and Loan 3 loans from the Plaintiff.
The info provided in the application and the materials submitted with the application were materially false respecting defendant’s financial condition.
Plaintiff relied on the info submitted in making the loan and plaintiff’s reliance was reasonable.
Defendant made the representations with intent to deceive Plaintiff for purposes of obtaining loans from Plaintiff from Plaintiff.
Where for plaintiff request judgment for 15686.91 to be non dischargeable.

Count Three

Defending obtained a loan for the purchase of a motorcycle and title was to be issued with plaintiff as Lien holder. Defendant, shortly after the transaction reported the bike stolen. Defendant’s insurance carrier would not pay the claim for the alleged theft of motorcycle because defendant misrepresented info in the policy application. Wherefore plaintiff requests judgment declaring the sum of 577.09 to be non discharbale.

Count Four

Defendant is no in possession of the motorcycle. He did not list the motorcycle in his schedules and has not amended his schedule to reflect that he is in possession of the motorcycle. Where for they request $5,777.09 to be non dischargeable.

[Meh]

The filing wasn't amended. The CU had already converted the secured loan to an unsecured loan.

I contacted my attorney the day I recovered the bike and told them. They said they would ammend the filing to show it. I talked to the paralegal on Weds or Thursday of last week and she said she had done it or was in the process of doing it at that exact moment. I haven't attempted to hide anything from them or anything. The bike will likely cost me 3-4 grand to repair and it's only worth 5 in perfect conditon with a non salvage title. They can have it if that's what they want. Im still formating the AP, hope to have it done within the hour. Thanks for the help guys!

[Meh]

This is what you posted the other day:

My attorney was worried, I wasn't. I thought before the requested an AP they would request a 2004 formally. I was ready for the 2004. The AP caught me slightly off garud.

[shabam]

Well he does have a police report that it was recovered. So they cannot claim he hid it from them. I am interested to see what other bs they piled on for the AP. Sounds like the CU is grasping for straws to get paid.

[OhioFiler]

It's a credit union. Nothing is surprising with them.
A rational person would not think it's strange at all that it appeared before discharge, provided the filing was amended. Now had it appeared shortly after discharge or closing......

Regardless, it's all about the value of this bike. Having owned several, I know just how little damage can result in a bike being considered totaled. A theft recovery could easily fit the bill.

The filing wasn't amended. The CU had already converted the secured loan to an unsecured loan.

[Chowder]

They probably find the idea that the motorcycle incredibly reappeared just after the bk filing as possibly a fraudulent event.

It's a credit union. Nothing is surprising with them.
A rational person would not think it's strange at all that it appeared before discharge, provided the filing was amended. Now had it appeared shortly after discharge or closing......

Regardless, it's all about the value of this bike. Having owned several, I know just how little damage can result in a bike being considered totaled. A theft recovery could easily fit the bill.