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    Still not confirmed!! Arghhhh!!!

    So I'm starting to get annoyed. Well more annoyed. I'm having a "Murphy's Law" situation with life and the bankruptcy but first the bankruptcy.

    I have a lawyer who only demands things and never actually does anything as far as I can see. The Trustee is basically making her his ***** to my chagrin. He has denied my plan twice because 1. He feels my son (who is high functioning autistic with zero credit or job history) can somehow get his own debt and pay for his own schooling, 2. Wants me to pay back at 100% because I'm apparently hoarding away some large amount of money which is clearly why I filed bankruptcy and 3. Thinks my husband's debt should be included in my plan even though he didn't file with me. W...T...F!! I am BEYOND annoyed. After my car company filed their motion for relief against the stay in place and that nightmare (paying directly to the lender for fees and costs for the attorney and also back car note payments even though they REFUSED to take them) and now this nonsense is getting ridiculous. I filed in April and I'm still waiting for the State of Maryland to file their proof of claim. They have until the end of this month to do so and my NEW confirmation is supposedly now not until the end of October.

    My worthless attorney doesn't believe I should pay back 100% and needs pay stubs almost weekly to prove her point. I've changed my exemptions from my already lost income and now my husband had to stop his side job due to health complications. Which basically means we don't have the same income we had before. She I hope will make that argument since I just had surgery and no sick leave left so I didn't get paid for time off. Fast forward two weeks and my father got ill, got terminal and died on the 23rd of August. His funeral is tomorrow and there's no bereavement in this rinky dink law firm I work for. MORE money I won't get. So how without a second side gig and me making half of what I made before does this A-HOLE think I can afford to pay at 100% of anything! I'm barely paying my mortgage, the payment to him and my kid's school expenses; where exactly am I supposed to get more money??

    OK..end rant. I have a funeral to get ready for..

    Sorry in advance for the outburst. But this is a LOT!

    #2
    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    So I'm starting to get annoyed. Well more annoyed. I'm having a "Murphy's Law" situation with life and the bankruptcy but first the bankruptcy.
    I hear you and it can be annohying, but remember that Chapter 13s are a marathon, not a sprint. My Chapter 13 took 10 months to confirm and there were not even any "major" issues blocking confirmation.

    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    I have a lawyer who only demands things and never actually does anything as far as I can see. The Trustee is basically making her his ***** to my chagrin.
    This may have more to do with your specific case, and not your attorney. Each Chapter 13 is unique and Chapter 13 Trustees do treat certain cases much more strictly than others. it's the nature of the beast.

    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    He has denied my plan twice because...
    First, Trustees don't deny plans. Only the judge can deny confirmation of your plan. A Trustee either agrees with your plan (confirms that the plan is ready for confirmation), or they file an objection to confirmation of the plan. Your attorney can "fight" the Trustee at a confirmation hearing. Many plans are confirmed over the objection(s) of the Trustee.

    Let's get down to the brass tacks...

    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    1. He feels my son (who is high functioning autistic with zero credit or job history) can somehow get his own debt and pay for his own schooling,
    This is will almost always be "an" objection of the Trustee where you have adult children who are going to college. You can overcome this objection. Just because the Trustee complains about it, does not mean that you can't get your plan confirmed over the objection of the Trustee. I had an adult-aged (22 year old) college stepson who was (is still) attending college. The Trustee objected, but I explained the reasoning (he lives at home and is high-functioning autistic, if that matters). The Trustee backed off to make sure that I wasn't arbitrarily putting my "adult" stepson's needs over paying back my creditors. It didn't matter, in my case, because I only paid for his room/board at home and not in a dormitory.

    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    2. Wants me to pay back at 100% because I'm apparently hoarding away some large amount of money which is clearly why I filed bankruptcy
    Well, I really need to address #3 to address this!

    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    and 3. Thinks my husband's debt should be included in my plan even though he didn't file with me. W...T...F!! I am BEYOND annoyed. After my car company filed their motion for relief against the stay in place and that nightmare (paying directly to the lender for fees and costs for the attorney and also back car note payments even though they REFUSED to take them) and now this nonsense is getting ridiculous. I filed in April and I'm still waiting for the State of Maryland to file their proof of claim. They have until the end of this month to do so and my NEW confirmation is supposedly now not until the end of October.
    First, you are married and are supporting an adult college child. Second, you are filing as an individual. This means that your spouse's income may likely not be used to pay the creditors (more on this later). Third, the Trustee is probably perturbed that you are not both filing even though the debt is your personal debt (and not marital or co-debt). While you are not in a community property State, you are getting some benefits by filing only for your debt.

    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    Fast forward two weeks and my father got ill, got terminal and died on the 23rd of August. His funeral is tomorrow and there's no bereavement in this rinky dink law firm I work for. MORE money I won't get.
    First, I do wish to send my condolences regarding your father. Life is such a mind game. It seems like everything bad is happening right now, but this is part of living... disappointment and loss. I hope you can work through this despite your

    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    My worthless attorney doesn't believe I should pay back 100% and needs pay stubs almost weekly to prove her point. I've changed my exemptions from my already lost income and now my husband had to stop his side job due to health complications. Which basically means we don't have the same income we had before. She I hope will make that argument since I just had surgery and no sick leave left so I didn't get paid for time off.
    I don't think your attorney is worthless as, you can see, they don't believe you should be in a 100% plan. This is why you hired your attorney. To combat the "objections" of the Trustee and to address those objections one by one.

    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    So how without a second side gig and me making half of what I made before does this A-HOLE think I can afford to pay at 100% of anything! I'm barely paying my mortgage, the payment to him and my kid's school expenses; where exactly am I supposed to get more money??
    The Trustee doesn't know any of this, and it requires documentation to "prove" that you are not making enough to fund a plan. Additionally, filing as an individual and not as married, removes money from the bankruptcy estate that could be used to pay creditors (even though they are "just" your creditors). Trustee are always weary and scrutinize these married filing individually cases because they are too easy to abuse.

    Think about it. One spouse could make $50K a year and the other $200K a year. The one with $50K always takes all the debt, strategically, and files bankruptcy strategically as an individual. The spouse with $200K claims that all the money is used to pay "their" expense and not one penny of that is used to pay any of what is really marital debt. That can make it appear that the couple is "abusing" the bankruptcy system, but that type of strategy isn't really out of bounds. I know that you're not doing such a thing, with the whole debt strategy, but the Trustee must ensure that you are not doing that. This can only be proven through heavy documentation which is not normally required of joint bankruptcy filings.

    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
    OK..end rant. I have a funeral to get ready for..
    It is a lot to deal with and bankruptcy can lead to anxiety. Please rely upon your attorney as I see nothing wrong with how they are representing you in your case. it may seem like the Trustee is in control and "dismissing" your plans, but the Trustee has no such power. It reads to me as though your attorney sees your case and is prepared to demonstrate -- through documentation and perhaps at a confirmation hearing -- that your case should be confirmed as is.
    Last edited by justbroke; 09-05-2019, 12:14 AM.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13, discharged 5/10)
    Chapter 13 Filed (Pro Se) 5/14 (discharged 8/19)

    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


      #3
      kmccoleman I am so sorry to hear about your dad. Sending prayers your way. The passing of a parent is hard under "typical" circumstances, I am sorry you have this added onto your financial/BK stress

      justbroke has some good points. Let's hope the attorney is more skilled that it appears and the trustee and judge and trying to make sure everything is on the up and up and after they review everything they will see you are good for confirmation. Hang in there I have read it takes some confirmations a LONG time.

      Comment


        #4
        justbroke thanks for the breakdown of all things annoying. I think I'm just more frustrated with the movement or lack thereof. And the sole reason we didn't file jointly was because my husband was in mid adjudication for his security clearance investigation. He literally couldn't file with me. Life would have been a hell of a lot easier if he could have instead of us piecemealing his debts and mine included in the bankruptcy plus the trustee and having to pay my car note and the mortgage outside of the bankruptcy. With everything going on right now, I'm just past my breaking point. Normally I can just let go and let God but it's just been one thing after the other and I need SOMETHING to pan out right now.

        carmella13 I get some folks are into funny business and trying to "game the system" but we're not those people. I just want some breathing room from the exhausting and stifling debt we accumulated. Our joint tax debt and joint mortgage debt are included in my bankruptcy solely. A lot of my creditors didn't file (mostly medical debts and some closed and charged off cards) so the plan should actually come in as less money.

        I think his issues are my kid and his expenses plus the plan won't be as expensive as it looked when I filed. There's still a ton of debt I'd love to wipe out in the next 5 years but I gotta get confirmed first. My husband's credit isn't any better and he's actually considering filing himself but my attorney said we needed to get me confirmed before even venturing to file for him. I guess that would look a little funny too. In the interim, we're still playing catch up on most of this debt. Sprinkle in the fact my Dad didn't have any life insurance and we've all had to come out of pocket to pay for funeral expenses and we're having a shitstorm all at once right now.

        I'm renewing our Costco membership soon and our cell and cable bills are ridiculously high so once we get up to date on them, we'll have to downsize on those too. But we have to pay the past due first. Sigh..

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
          justbroke thanks for the breakdown of all things annoying. I think I'm just more frustrated with the movement or lack thereof. And the sole reason we didn't file jointly was because my husband was in mid adjudication for his security clearance investigation. He literally couldn't file with me. Life would have been a hell of a lot easier if he could have instead of us piecemealing his debts and mine included in the bankruptcy plus the trustee and having to pay my car note and the mortgage outside of the bankruptcy. With everything going on right now, I'm just past my breaking point. Normally I can just let go and let God but it's just been one thing after the other and I need SOMETHING to pan out right now.
          The security clearance issue is well understood! I just had to renew mine last year and it was very nerve-wracking. I had to explain everything on their report. Luckily, I was 4 years into my Chapter 13. I think your decision to exclude him from the joint filing, based on the security clearance, was wise.

          Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
          I think his issues are my kid and his expenses plus the plan won't be as expensive as it looked when I filed. There's still a ton of debt I'd love to wipe out in the next 5 years but I gotta get confirmed first. My husband's credit isn't any better and he's actually considering filing himself but my attorney said we needed to get me confirmed before even venturing to file for him. I guess that would look a little funny too. In the interim, we're still playing catch up on most of this debt. Sprinkle in the fact my Dad didn't have any life insurance and we've all had to come out of pocket to pay for funeral expenses and we're having a shitstorm all at once right now.
          I think you'll get there, one step at a time. The death of your father, debt, and other life events will drive nearly anyone crazy.

          You're not crazy for trying to get the best plan that you can. You're not crazy to want to understand how this all works. You're also not alone; we are here to answer any of your questions, or if you just want to vent.

          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13, discharged 5/10)
          Chapter 13 Filed (Pro Se) 5/14 (discharged 8/19)

          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

          Comment


            #6
            justbroke the scrutiny he got just on explaining the debt he had, the reason it fell behind and what he was doing to remedy it was crazy enough. I can't even fathom trying to maneuver how to breakdown a newly filed bankruptcy. There's enough on our plate without putting our major source of income in jeopardy. Thankfully he's good for ten more years. Ironically we got the news it got extended on the same day I got the objection by the Trustee on my plan. First they're sour then they're sweet..

            I didn't mention also that my bathroom wall is eroding completely and only by the power of Flex Tape have the holes been plugged temporarily. Our house needs a ton of work and there's no money to do it. So that's stressful in itself..and yeah, the other stuff too on the list of "life happens."

            At this point I'm trying to count the blessing I have. A healthy family and child. A fairly stable job even if it does pay me pennies compared to what I'm worth. And thankfully they've been accommodating with all of life's mishaps lately. I'm not on a roof right now waiting to be rescued. My life hasn't been flooded away. Food in my stomach and shelter no matter how in need of repair it is, is keeping me warm and cool with every different season that comes. So I guess given how life is screwing the world over right, that's a pretty good list of good.

            But I'm thankful for this forum. Happy I have people to talk to that can empathize and really say I know how you feel and mean it because they've been there or are there right now. Even with your discharge and new start, you are still here to offer sound and reasonable advice and an ear. Hopefully you won't fade off into oblivion because a lot of us are happy for your lifeline. And knowing there's a light at the end of the tunnel gives us some comfort

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you. It's a community and we all need each other. I am here because this community has given me so much, read my rants, and helped me through it... twice!
              Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13, discharged 5/10)
              Chapter 13 Filed (Pro Se) 5/14 (discharged 8/19)

              Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

              I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

              Comment


                #8
                Hang in there kmccoleman I know you are not doing any funny business and you are doing all the right things which makes it frustrating that you have to jump through hopes to prove it.

                I believe you are making payments already ? if so then at least the 5 yrs are counting down. You will get through this rough time and there are better days ahead.

                Lots of us have temporary fixes in our home. I have self adhesive wall paper on a very bumpy wall (where tile came down) in the bathroom (not in the shower) and self adhesive wallpaper is like a modern contact paper! First I had patched a few holes and put on paintable wallpaper which was a job even though it's just a half wall then my husand forgot to take a towel in the shower, came out soaking wet into the hallway where our towel closet is, he slipped and fell and the door knob jammed into the wall putting a 6 inch hole through the wall I had repaired! That's when I came across the self adhesive wallpaper the store no longer had the paintable wall paper. We stil haven't finished caulking the tubsurround that is outside of the tub (doesn't get wet, it's the part near the wallpaper) Looks very tacky and the window that is the only ventilation in the bathroom is broken/won't open, well it could open, but we'd never get it shut again.

                I think a lot of us in this situation paying on Chapter 13 put a lot things on hold. Or like me and my husband sharing a car. I'll tell you that is more stressful than the darn Chapter 13 process! OK slight, exaggeration, but it's awful. He's getting less patient if I pick him up "late." The other night I felt sick and laid down and then overslept. He got off at 9 p.m. He wasn't a happy camper and I was so upset since I felt sick I needed some sympathy not angry guy. Oh well, it will pass, too.

                Comment


                  #9
                  justbroke I think in the next five years I'll have you beat. I haven't even been confirmed and I'm fairly certain I've got a good 9 or 10 topics already.

                  carmella13 I'm trying to get through. I've been making payments since April, I just want to get this stupid thing confirmed already. I just hate that the bad apples of the past make the people who really need the help now spoiled it for everyone. Unfortunately the hard days just seem to want to stick around and ruin basically everything lately. Not more than 24 hours after we buried my Dad we found out my husband's brother had died. Leaving behind a four year old son. So now my nephew has no one parent wise. His Mom passed a few years ago so this whole year end has been a nightmare. So including everything else, this is tied onto the horribleness. I just need something to pan out right now because it's getting to be too much now.

                  And as far as the home repairs, you lost me at wallpaper. I put the Flex tape on and hoped for the best. My husband isn't handy by any stretch of the imagination so the "lived in" level of our house right now is extreme. There's soooo many things that need to be repaired or replaced. It's like our house is being held together with Gorilla Glue and prayers.

                  The "one car" thing would be grounds for divorce. My husband smokes cigars and that smell resonates throughout his entire car. If we had one car and I smelled that in my seats, I'd go ALL the way off. Once that smell gets into your car or clothes or anything for that matter there's no getting it out. He's not even allowed to spoke near my car or in the house because that smell is gross number one and number two I have asthma so I can't be around anything smoke related and he knows it. So I'm fairly certain we'd have to find an Uber/Lyft compromise because NO!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    My condolences on the additional loss in your family. Grief seems to strike multiple times over short periods. All we can do is to be there for the living (your nephew).

                    Originally posted by kmccoleman View Post
                    And as far as the home repairs, you lost me at wallpaper. I put the Flex tape on and hoped for the best. My husband isn't handy by any stretch of the imagination so the "lived in" level of our house right now is extreme. There's soooo many things that need to be repaired or replaced. It's like our house is being held together with Gorilla Glue and prayers.
                    Been there. Done that. I actually started to hate my home. I got out from it, but I'm now looking at a townhouse or smaller new (construction) home to live out my days. My neighbor could tell that I gave up at some point. So tiring.
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13, discharged 5/10)
                    Chapter 13 Filed (Pro Se) 5/14 (discharged 8/19)

                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      justbroke I hate mine with a passion right now. There are SO many things that need to be done to it and the previous owners just literally put a fresh coat of paint on a dumpster fire. We thought our little home was a dream when we viewed it. Now it's just a waiting money pit. That's just one one of the issues we've "applied tape" to. We have an issue with our ceiling on our second level and under all that tape is likely a ton of slow water damage. And because it wasn't a flood and a slow drip over time, the homeowner's insurance of course won't pay to have it repaired. So it becomes our headache. My husband is under the "ignore it and it'll go away" philosophy. And it's clearly not gonna go away. The "shrug your shoulders" principle way of being isn't doing anything. The more age our house gets, the worse it gets. I know it's the American dream to own a home but it's been very Nightmare on Elm Street for us.

                      Thank you for the kind words. We're trying to get through but it really is just one thing after another. I need SOMETHING to pan out.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        First of all, please accept my condolences on the loss of your father - I lost my mother to a very quick case of lung cancer (She was put in hospice one week , and died the next) approx. 8 months before we had to file. For me this BK13 and her death will always be intertwined as a brutal one-two punch!
                        OMG, you hating your dilapidated house is exactly how I felt about the investor shack that drove us into BK13 in the first place - a shabby basic no frills 1963 "investor home" with no charm, no updates, no nothing but asbestos basement tile, asbestos vinyl bathroom and kitchen floors,mice-infested kitchen cabinets ,no swamp cooler, etc. How this crappy fixer-upper managed to be listed as any thing other than SOLD AS IS and passed inspection beats me! It was our first starter home bought with a 401K loan for the down payment through a greedy loan officer and his henchwoman,a neophyte real estate agent! We stupidly thought it wouldn't cost that much to make it livable and comfortable for my elderly mother - it ended up costing 100K on credit cards and netted us only 80K when sold shortly after Mama's death in April 2016. We paid 60k to the credit cards and had enough for the down payment here where we currently live.We had additional CC debt and when we filed in Feb.2017 we had 134K in total, but only 109k made claims. (Some renovations to the old house were used with store CCs and we had to put in new toilets, a small vanity, fix some electrical issues, buy some ceiling lights in the "new" house.)
                        We had difficulty getting our lower payment confirmed (I had lots of medical issues then as now) ,but we were finally confirmed in Aug 2017.
                        I also want to extend my sympathies to you about your recent surgery and how they are treating your son's autistic condition.
                        I hope you can get some wins soon! As that old MacDonald ad said," You deserve a break today!"

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Barbisi I'm pretty sure you and my real estate agent are BFFs. I can't even understand how my house passed inspection. Mind you the buyer made us go through hoops to even get moved in because she was having her house built and it wasn't ready for months after we went to settlement. We worked out a deal to have her pay us rent while she waited for her house to be done, however, that didn't help us because we were paying our rent and the mortgage. Fast forward a few years and the cabinets started to unhinge, all the appliances that were "like new" were actually the appliances that came with the house 20 plus years prior that were only repaired through a home warranty that expired the year we bought the house. Then electrical issues and our water heater. Then the HVAC system started to leak and then became completely worthless and had to be replaced. Then all the pipes that were conveniently painted white to appear new were actually rusted underneath and not up to code so we had to replace those with all copper pipes. Along with banisters that were too heavy to be held up on our walls, flood and water damage because of not up to code pipes and just living in the house equals a complete and utter clusterf****!

                          Now with more age, the "like newness" of the other things in the house are slowly dying. Did I also mention during this time I had cancer twice, my husband had stomach surgery and we were both either on FMLA leave or completely laid off during a five year period? Oh yeah..walking on sunshine over here kids..

                          So we definitely deserve a break today. And tomorrow. And possibly until the world is down to just cockroaches and politicians alive and have survived the zombie apocalypse.

                          Thank you for the condolences. It's a lot. And just when I thought it was safe to return to normal life and the funeral for my Dad was done, the next day we found out my husband's 42 year old brother had passed away. Leaving behind a 4 year old. So it's definitely not a "beautiful day in the neighborhood" circa 1982 Mr. Rogers..

                          Comment


                            #14
                            kmccoleman, so sorry about your brother-in-law! Yet another tragedy to deal with! And cancer is so scary! I hope you are finally healthy again. And your husband too!
                            We had to pay for Mama's cremation ($1100 ) with CCs, so I get your struggles paying for your dad's funeral.
                            I'm wondering how you guys feel about staying in Maryland once this BK13 ends - do you plan to stay there or are you wanting to move some where else?
                            I have no family anywhere, so staying here is only dependent on my husband getting another job elsewhere and being able to sell this second house with a solar panel lease lasting until 2033.(I don't want to buy a third in Colorado.) Frankly, I can't think of one good reason to stay beyond 2022, besides selling the house and my husband getting a different job in another state. I have "retired"from my field and now stay mostly at home and am having semi- serious heath issues which come and go frequently. (I got a cortisone shot in my subacromial bursa in June and the pain and inflammation are already returning, so I have no choice but to seek expensive PT (one office quoted $250 with Cigna, $96 self-pay!) I am still looking for a better deal that allows me to pay towards my deductible ( a high $3200!)
                            It does sound like our realtors were in cahoots LOL!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Barbisi thanks very much. My husband is feeling better and I've been in remission for four years now *knock on wood* so hopefully healthwise the worst is over.

                              We had a bit of help thanks to the Department of Health and Human Services helping with a voucher to the funeral home and a GoFundMe I started for the expenses. Plus right before his death my Dad was approved for SSI and he had two checks already banked. It wasn't much but it definitely helped with the service and the cremation.

                              As far as staying in Maryland, my husband is a govvie so we stay because this is where the jobs are. Its always been expensive and we were both born and raised in this area (more DC than MD) so the hope is to put down roots down near his family in North Carolina when we are closer to retirement age. Unless this bankruptcy somehow converts to a 7 and they want us to sell our house, then we wouldn't have a ton of choice on moving. But my hope is all the bumps smooth out and we can just catch a DAMN BREAK!!

                              Yikes on the solar panel and Colorado expenses. The smallest house here is somewhere upwards of $250K and that's in the suburbs no where near DC. If you try to live there you are spending that on a condo and that's if you get a fixer upper. DC is ridiculous now. We live about 20 minutes away from there and the mortgages in my neighborhood are a little less insane but they are still high for the small amount of house you get.

                              Health problems in general put a monkey wrench in life so adding a bankruptcy to the equation is doubly stressful. My husband has insurance through the Feds and I'm on his along with our son who can stay on it until he's 26 (he turns 20 in February). I'm not sure what the rules are for adult children with a disability (our son is high functioning autistic) but we want him to stay on our stuff as long as possible because insurance premiums are insane.

                              Our realtors definitely had each other on speed dial. Honestly I think my realtor was just clueless with settlement negotiations and how to haggle. She was young and so were we so we didn't know any better or what to look for. But the age comes with the wisdom. Too bad we weren't this smart when we started looking for a house..lol.

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