What are you Ch 13 payments (propposed and final outcome)?

[BNKRPTinNC]

$1850 per month and has not changed. Included in that amount is the atty, mortgage (+arrears), car, rv, and unsecured. Car, rv, atty, and arrears are paid off so the last 14 or so payments will be to unsecured debt.

[kornellred]

Anyone who absolutely qualifies for a Chapter 7 would be a fool to choose Chapter 13 except to retain possession of an asset. But if you can clearly afford a Chapter 13, you will not be allowed to file a Chapter 7. That is the sense in which you have no choice.

There are a lot of borderline cases where eligibility for Chapter 7 is not clearly defined. If an attorney can legally manipulate a debtor's financial situation so as to eliminate the presumption of abuse, then submits a petition for bankruptcy under Chapter 7 for the debtor, that only means the debtor has realized a preference - not a choice.

[jcsawyer]

Thanks all. Jcsawyer, does your payment include cars? Just curious.

It includes one vehicle I am surrendering my Mazda But we also have three cars one is paid off and two we owe on so I am letting mine go back since it is super upside down. It also includes our mortgage payment and arrears to that mortgage.

[Redsox]

Our payment started at 1350 for 2 years and the Trustee wouldn't confirm our plan. Finally my lawyer raised our payment to 1600/ mo and changed some wording in our plan and we just got confirmed after 2 1/2 years. This not the norm by any stretch though. Our cars and home mortgage are NOT included.

[alo]

Thanks all. Jcsawyer, does your payment include cars? Just curious.

[hmsmith]

I filed a Ch 7 and we were considered "higher income" and it was possible that a Ch 7 wouldn't work out. My attorney was really good and said he *thinks* it will pass but couldn't guarentee due to our income. However, I just wanted to share that my sister-in-law is on a Ch 13 and her payment plan is less than $100 a month. It is around $75 (and some change) per month for 3 years. I guess hers in the lowest I've seen of heard of.

[jcsawyer]

Ours is 1660/mo for 60 months we just made our first payment to the trustee today.

[berkeleygl]

Our plan is $288.53 for 5 years. Our unsecured creditors are only getting 0.3% payback. We are under median and technically qualify for both a ch.7 and a ch. 13 3 year plan, but since we had $15,000ish IRS debt, this plan made the most sense. All of our IRS debt will be paid back in this plan. So, rather than file a 7 and pay back the IRS debt privately (and keep accruing interest etc), we chose to organize it this way. And if we had chosen a 3 year plan, the payment was too high for us (close to $600). Not enough DMI for that. So here we are

[Reddrocket07]

My plan started out at $500 a month but was increased to $600 to allow additional payment to my lawyer. It will probably go up again because I got a new job, make slightly more and will need to increase the repayment amount to make sure my plan will be paid in full at the end of the 60 months. It's a little scary because we budget very tightly, so the wage increase has me nervous. We are only paying secured 1% so there is no room to drop that.

[keepsmiling]

Yep, we senior citizens are losing it. Before MD comes along and corrects me, I will correct myself.
Her income qualified her for a 7, but the time frame did not.
However, some who could do a 7 may choose to do 13 instead- say, for purposes of a lien strip, or to keep an asset, or even just to avoid extra scrutiny.
There is a certain amount of manipulation of expenses- all within a legal framework, of course- that can be used to swing a case either way. Buying a new car is an often used one, as is increasing insurance coverage.

So that thing about "no choice"-- again, not exactly true.

[ValleYum]

I know I am getting old and slightly senile, but I was pretty sure I had read that^^^^

Also- as to the "choice" of which to file issue--- not exactly true. Sometimes those who qualify for a 7 choose to do a 13. Just ask Mountaindo
And there are borderline cases regularly, which could go either way.
Law is rarely crystal clear- that's why lawyers argue--- and bk is never a one-size-fits-all issue. If it were the forum pages would be much much fewer.

You? Senile? Never! I swore up and down I had read it, too, but forgot slap about participating in it~ LOL Happy Friday!

[keepsmiling]

I know I am getting old and slightly senile, but I was pretty sure I had read that^^^^

Also- as to the "choice" of which to file issue--- not exactly true. Sometimes those who qualify for a 7 choose to do a 13. Just ask Mountaindo
And there are borderline cases regularly, which could go either way.
Law is rarely crystal clear- that's why lawyers argue--- and bk is never a one-size-fits-all issue. If it were the forum pages would be much much fewer.

[ValleYum]

I don't believe I ever indicated that filing one way or another is a choice (and I am certain to advise with an attorney on the pros, cons and possibilities of outcome for my specific situation). However, based on preliminary research and reading others experiences, there seems to be "shades of grey" regarding Ch 7 qualification, Ch 13 payment analysis and the influences of trustee personalities/case load...but I've only just started delving into this subject.

Also, I found this but not sure if it is a hard rule...or merely a guideline.

If the debtor’s disposable monthly income, DMI, multiplied by 60, is less than 25% of the debtors unsecured, non-priority debts, then the debtor passes the means test. If the debtor’s DMI, multiplied by 60, is greater than 25% of the debtors unsecured, non-priority debts, then the debtor fails the means test and can only file chapter 7 only with a showing of special circumstances.

Best to all.

We talked about that 25% issue in this thread about a year or so ago: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...-5-years-thing ***Be aware the numbers have since changed AGAIN! LOL

Essentially, it is the second and final attempt at passing the Means Test. The most simplistic explanation was/is this:

If you need to use the secondary (25%) presumption determination - you put the total amount of your unsecured debt (credit cards, signature loans, etc.) on Line 53. Multiply this number by .25 to compute the amount to enter on Line 54.

If the amount on Line 51 is smaller than Line 54 - you pass - the presumption of abuse does not arise.

If the amount on Line 51 equals or is larger than Line 54 - you do not pass - the presumption of abuse does arise.

[Carter]

Mine was $450 mo. for 3 yrs. Trustee said no because the unsecured creditors would get less than 1%. Plan was modified to $400 mo. for 5 yrs. now unsecured creditors are getting 24%. We qualified to be on the 3 yr plan but the atty didn't want to fight it!

[alo]

I don't believe I ever indicated that filing one way or another is a choice (and I am certain to advise with an attorney on the pros, cons and possibilities of outcome for my specific situation). However, based on preliminary research and reading others experiences, there seems to be "shades of grey" regarding Ch 7 qualification, Ch 13 payment analysis and the influences of trustee personalities/case load...but I've only just started delving into this subject.

Also, I found this but not sure if it is a hard rule...or merely a guideline.

If the debtor’s disposable monthly income, DMI, multiplied by 60, is less than 25% of the debtors unsecured, non-priority debts, then the debtor passes the means test. If the debtor’s DMI, multiplied by 60, is greater than 25% of the debtors unsecured, non-priority debts, then the debtor fails the means test and can only file chapter 7 only with a showing of special circumstances.

Best to all.