in chap 7, and got email from previous lanlord

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Thank you. So are you in my book; you have the chutzpah to go pro se. You may win, you may lose, but it takes a hell of a person to do it, so YOU rock!

I did edit it again though, and my edit shows after your post, so you may want to reread it... for even MORE awesomeness! *laugh!!!*

Good luck to you!!!

[Bobbi]

u r awesome!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Bobbi, I agree with everyone who said he's phishing, don't even respond.

I also agree with you 100% on the amendment because he is an atty. If he were just a regular jerk I wouldn't bother, but as an atty if he knows you're bk then he has probably looked up your filing and perused it carefully. His questions look to me more like he is wondering whether going up against you will cost him more than it's worth: sure, he can object at your 341, but then you will be able to get evidence in "on the record" in your responses -- such as your emails, his lack of response to your complaints, probable violation of both building code and housing law -- which could then be used in a different court against him. Now, this won't be argued in bk court, but if he comes to your 341 and says a lot of things to which you have to answer, those statements by both parties are now "on the record" and can be used in later legal proceedings, like if you sued him under your available housing laws, separately from the bk, or God forbid he sued you.

So I totally agree that he is trying to set you up, but if you don't play his game and answer, you're pretty safe.

That, and regardless of what he feels you owe him, he's going to have to come up with a lot more than this to prevent the discharge of that debt. Breaking your lease isn't enough, as far as I know.

Now, you know you can make margin notes on your filing, right? When I listed a debt as disputed on my Schedule F, I put a big long margin note in to explain it. (I'm pro se too, as you're probably aware, and I used Adobe to text box the margin note in a smaller font across the bottom of the page, like a footnote.) It was probably unnecessary, but it saved me from ever having to explain it further. If I were in your shoes, and I did a margin note, I would word it very carefully to avoid making the trustee believe that I could sue the landlord for damages (which would then belong to the bk estate and the trustee!), but if I did one, it would read along the lines of:

"Actual amount of debt unknown; includes fees from breaking lease in October, 2007 [or whatever the date was] plus costs for repairs added by landlord after leaving. However, these added repair costs are currently unspecified and continue to change, even five months after having left the premises, and because of landlord's failure to substantiate any claim with receipts or other documentation, we feel that these charges are retaliatory in nature and not based on actual damage. Thus, the current total is unknown and the amount shown above is an estimate, but the entire amount is currently in dispute and likely to remain so."

The reason I word it this way is because of the slimy way that email was written: on one hand, he writes it as though you were responsible for blowing insulation into the attic yourself, WHICH IS A POTENTIAL CLAIM, but then turns around and talks about trying the water and it works just fine, WHICH IS A POTENTIAL DEFENSE against any lawsuit you may bring. I think he is even more aware than you are of what your legal options are in regard to his behavior and wants to head you off in any way possible while leaving the door open for a countersuit to any legal action you may take against him. So in addition to marking the debt disputed in your amendment, I would also check the unliquified box (that means someone may have grounds to sue you, but has not done so yet).

I see what you're saying about cunning but not smart common-sense-wise, because in the end none of this matters in bk court. He's thinking real estate law, which has nothing to do with bk, and a bk court will not decide the validity of his debt for him, only whether there are grounds for refusing a discharge of that debt, which is a whole 'nother story. Yet he's still thinking in terms of proving claims and defenses, or so it seems to me based on his language, which is stupid. See, if your debt to him is successfully discharged in bk court, it's not just the end of what he says you owe him right now, it's also the end of any future claim he may make against you based on your tenancy (hence the check in the unliquified column). You will have, in other words, successfully Mike Nifong'd him.

I hope someone with more actual legal savvy can step in and add to this (or correct me if I'm wrong). As you know, I'm no lawyer, but if you take a step back and look at his email like a savvy stranger would, I think you'll see it for what it is -- and none of it has any place in bk court, as far as I can tell.

Good luck!!!

[Bobbi]

His email to you sounded real jerky. I got a real bad vibe from it. I'd just document everything that happened with the apartment to bring to the 341 just in case and refuse to answer his stupid questions. Don't even answer him back; I don't see the point in it and he may be trying to trick you into saying something that he can use against you later.

Did you save copies of the high electric bills? $700 is absolutely insane for a month of electric! It sounds like a real hell-hole of a house with a slimy slum-lord. I'm glad you are out of there.

yeah, they are included in my bankruptcy to, i couldn't afford the last bill, and had to let it go......i have them all though. it was a house, but no house that would cost that much in electric.

this guy is very weird. i got that vibe from the get go. he is always trying to fenagle everything, he is cheap, and he acts nice, but he is really an ass. i dont think he is the brightest on the block, common sense wise......but he is smart........i am not going to respond. i think on monday, i am going to file an amendment and change his info to disputed on the bankruptcy......

[Lindsay]

His email to you sounded real jerky. I got a real bad vibe from it. I'd just document everything that happened with the apartment to bring to the 341 just in case and refuse to answer his stupid questions. Don't even answer him back; I don't see the point in it and he may be trying to trick you into saying something that he can use against you later.

Did you save copies of the high electric bills? $700 is absolutely insane for a month of electric! It sounds like a real hell-hole of a house with a slimy slum-lord. I'm glad you are out of there.

[my4devils]

Our landlord right now is my husband's aunt- and we have gotten into a few sticky situations with her. We have 4 kids too and had to replace a 2k furnace in the middle of January- not fun! Actually- that scenerio is what finally led us to admit we needed to file BK. I cant wait until all this is over and we can buy a house again. Good Luck!

[Bobbi]

Document, document, document! Take the email with you to your 341, along with anything you may have that you sent to him, copies of bills, etc... Keep your butt covered- he sounds like a slimey one!

yeah, he is a low end lawyer. i should have looked into him more before i signed a lease to rent his home. he wormed us out of money from day one. like the sink faucet. one day after we signed the lease, we were doing the inventory and the faucet wouldn't expel water, it needed to be replaced, and he made me pay half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[my4devils]

Document, document, document! Take the email with you to your 341, along with anything you may have that you sent to him, copies of bills, etc... Keep your butt covered- he sounds like a slimey one!

[Bobbi]

exactly - he's phishing to try to get you to say something that he might be able to use against you. Did you send him emails of everything that was wrong when you lived there? Just wondering. It won't matter but it would be an extra if he did show up and you could whip out emails documenting.

oh yeah, i sent four or five just in the first two weeks of october, with read receipts, and he never replied. the last two were notice that we were going to vacate the home if the repairs were not made, since the lease forbids us from deducting repairs.......so anything we fixed we had to eat as far as the expense.....

he never even replied once we moved....just ign ored us. i thought he would take us to court for breaking the lease, but he hasn't filed. i included him in my chap 7, and today, i get this email out of the blue.

he is such a jerk. he is a lawyer, so i am sure he will try to stick it to us the whole way.

[danaf]

exactly - he's phishing to try to get you to say something that he might be able to use against you. Did you send him emails of everything that was wrong when you lived there? Just wondering. It won't matter but it would be an extra if he did show up and you could whip out emails documenting.

[Bobbi]

i don't know what i would do without this place, lol

[Ugh07]

say nothing

[Bobbi]

I wouldn't respond. You already told him everything. Sounds like he is just phishing.

i think he is trying to set me up, and what is funny is we are the ones that got hurt in the deal. he wouldn't fix anything on the property and with 4 kids, we were left with one bathroom and another smelling of sewer water. it sucked.

he knows we weren't deceitful, at all......i bet he shows at the 341 though.

[danaf]

I wouldn't respond. You already told him everything. Sounds like he is just phishing.

[Bobbi]

lol, i am prose.........