Filed BK7 yesterday; not at all impressed with my lawyer now

[I want out]

I hate to say "most" attorneys suck. But I can honestly say that 2 out of 4 of the attorneys I have dealt with in my life sucked.

... just like every other profession on the planet. Most people suck at what they do. We fool ourselves into thinking that just because they have a "JD" or "MD" after their names, that the normal rules of life don't apply.

There's a balance to be had... maybe you don't really NEED a great attorney as long as your case isn't terribly complicated. I would say that those who show up expecting to add nothing to the process and "let the attorney handle it, that's what I'm paying them the big bucks for," are doomed to get average results. And, "average" is often not very good. If you've done your homework, you're going to catch a lot of mistakes, or ask the right questions along the way. After all, it's your tush on the line, not anyone else's.

one should work hard to find a PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION from someone who has used that particular attorney for that particular reason; i.e; you're filing bankrutpcy, find somone who has used that attorney for bankruptcy.

You hear that all the time and yet, past performance does not guarantee future results.

Best to arm yourself with as much info as you can... trust, but verify.

I'm sure you could have done an excellent job, compared to my first attorney Have you considered law school? You know alot!

I agree... even if not law school, maybe become a paralegal? If you enjoy this stuff, are energized by learning, and committed to getting the best possible results for your clients, you really should consider this.

The fundamental problem in every industry on the planet is that hardly anyone really understands what the client/customer is going through. There is virtually NO empathy in any line of work... and most of those who profess to have it really don't. There's nothing more powerful than "I've been in your shoes." Those who've "been there" are usually the most committed to getting what's in the CUSTOMER'S best interest... and as you can tell by a lot of the posts, you'd be in rare company.

Think about it.

[lovescats1956]

Sorry to hear about your attorney, butterfly wings. This is why I just recently wrote some advice about picking an attorney, to ask if the attorney does the work or a paralegal. Personally I would always choose an attorney who does it himself. However, I DID get one who did it himself and he screwed up my petition, too! (not as bad as your's but bad enough to get the UST to audit our case because he thought our debt was a lot more than it was!)

There are a LOT of sloppy attorneys out there, it would seem! Makes me wish it wasn't so hard to get a law degree - I am sure I could do a much better job than a lot of these attorneys are doing.

Anyway, good luck with your case. At least NOW, he should go out of his way to make SURE there are NO MORE problems, and get your case discharged!

I'm sure you could have done an excellent job, compared to my first attorney Have you considered law school? You know alot!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

I see what you're saying Fresh, but still, this is just GROSS INCOMPETENCE, in my opinion! Even if they have paralegals do the petitions, they HAVE to check them all. The attorney is the one RESPONSIBLE and I think this type of thing - which we are seeing a lot of around here these days - borders on malpractice.

I don't disagree. And I'm not at all sure there's any "bordering" about it, it IS malpractice to file papers in any suit, bk or otherwise, that are known by the atty to be incorrect. That he didn't know because he was too lazy to check is secondary at best, and the Professional Rules of Conduct for attys make it clear that they are expected to hold their staff to the same level of conduct and excellence expected of themselves. While Butterflywings' atty was able to hide behind the paralegal's skirts (so to speak ) in the privacy of his own office, in a Bar complaint that simply would not fly: he is responsible for what he files, period.

But the reason I wrote what I did is because, in the end, Butterflywings' bk isn't in the crapper -- or worse, flipped to a 13 or even dismissed. She took the time to learn, and because she did, she was able to catch every little thing and save her bk, thank God. Seems like most of the atty horror stories I hear, the papers aren't even shown to the filer, or mistakes are glossed over or even flat out misrepresented to the filer, and it's only when they are facing the UST (like you) or even dismissal that it all comes to light.

The only thing I would disagree with is when you say, "The attorney is the one responsible," because to me, if it's MY life, and MY finances, and MY signature on the bottom line, it's MY responsibility. (See the fine print in my sig. ) That's why I wrote: no matter how bad it *could* have been, the fact that Butterflywings educated herself and caught the situation before it could escalate is best all around, and her actions have reduced what could have been a disaster to a mere bump in the road.

But everything you say about attorneys.... damn skippy, dude. Kudos to Butterflywings for becoming educated and saving her own bk. And you too, Pa -- it wasn't so long ago that you saved your own.

[Bandit]

I hate to say "most" attorneys suck. But I can honestly say that 2 out of 4 of the attorneys I have dealt with in my life sucked. And the other 2 semi-sucked.

They do. Doctors, Lawyers, Judges, ATT phone company, and the higher paid jobs like that, somehow they think they are above everyone & can do as they please and their mistakes are no big deal. I keep seeing a lot of semi sucking lately, a lot of sucking, all across the board.

I swear to God, you call a BK attorney & ask them "What is the exemption for a car for a single filer ?"

They say, "I will have to go look that up."
How suckingsuckysucksucked can they get!



Bact to the OP- getting the SS# wrong, that is just plain Suck with a large S.
At least they found it now & not after the 341.

[PaKettle]

Butterflywings, this probably isn't what you want to hear (and I apologize in advance ) but I think you are incredibly fortunate to have an atty who walked through your papers with you in detail and allowed you to correct these things pre-341. It's hard when it's your life on the line, but he at least sounds as though he personally is honest; if he weren't, he would have blown you off and the changes would never have been made at all. If you read the atty horror stories around here, you may actually start to feel kind of grateful.

I don't minimize at all what it must have been like sitting in that office and staring incompetency in the face when your whole financial future is on the line -- I personally would have been pissed off too -- but in the end, you're one of the luckier ones. That's why I tell everyone to learn, learn, learn, because you have to keep track of these people... you can't trust them to be there for you, unfortunately.

I hope this is the worst you'll ever have to face and that it is smooth sailing from here on out... Good luck to you!!!!

I see what you're saying Fresh, but still, this is just GROSS INCOMPETENCE, in my opinion! Even if they have paralegals do the petitions, they HAVE to check them all. The attorney is the one RESPONSIBLE and I think this type of thing - which we are seeing a lot of around here these days - borders on malpractice.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Butterflywings, this probably isn't what you want to hear (and I apologize in advance ) but I think you are incredibly fortunate to have an atty who walked through your papers with you in detail and allowed you to correct these things pre-341. It's hard when it's your life on the line, but he at least sounds as though he personally is honest; if he weren't, he would have blown you off and the changes would never have been made at all. If you read the atty horror stories around here, you may actually start to feel kind of grateful.

I don't minimize at all what it must have been like sitting in that office and staring incompetency in the face when your whole financial future is on the line -- I personally would have been pissed off too -- but in the end, you're one of the luckier ones. That's why I tell everyone to learn, learn, learn, because you have to keep track of these people... you can't trust them to be there for you, unfortunately.

I hope this is the worst you'll ever have to face and that it is smooth sailing from here on out... Good luck to you!!!!

[PaKettle]

I can relate. A year ago I filed chapter 13 and the payments were totally unmanageable. My prior attorney refused to even help me out so I had to get another attorney, pay ANOTHER $3,000 retainer and my case was converted to a chpater 7 (my 341 meeting is on March 7th). The first attorney forgot to factor in my student loan payments which made it look like I had a lot of disposable income at the end of the month. My new attorney was flabbergasted and said I should have filed Chapter 7 to begin with! I'm pissed because all of this could have been over with last year! Now I have to get through yet another 341 meeting, wait for the 60 days for objections and THEN get discharged. What a fiasco! I've come to the conclusion that most attorneys suck.

I hate to say "most" attorneys suck. But I can honestly say that 2 out of 4 of the attorneys I have dealt with in my life sucked. And the other 2 semi-sucked. That's why - IF AT ALL POSSIBLE - (and sometimes it is quite difficult if not impossible to do) one should work hard to find a PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION from someone who has used that particular attorney for that particular reason; i.e; you're filing bankrutpcy, find somone who has used that attorney for bankruptcy.

However, I did this in the case of both of my bad attorneys and obviously it did not work. So there you go.

[lovescats1956]

I can relate. A year ago I filed chapter 13 and the payments were totally unmanageable. My prior attorney refused to even help me out so I had to get another attorney, pay ANOTHER $3,000 retainer and my case was converted to a chpater 7 (my 341 meeting is on March 7th). The first attorney forgot to factor in my student loan payments which made it look like I had a lot of disposable income at the end of the month. My new attorney was flabbergasted and said I should have filed Chapter 7 to begin with! I'm pissed because all of this could have been over with last year! Now I have to get through yet another 341 meeting, wait for the 60 days for objections and THEN get discharged. What a fiasco! I've come to the conclusion that most attorneys suck.

[Cali]

I would have left the office and found someone else.

[PaKettle]

Sorry to hear about your attorney, butterfly wings. This is why I just recently wrote some advice about picking an attorney, to ask if the attorney does the work or a paralegal. Personally I would always choose an attorney who does it himself. However, I DID get one who did it himself and he screwed up my petition, too! (not as bad as your's but bad enough to get the UST to audit our case because he thought our debt was a lot more than it was!)

There are a LOT of sloppy attorneys out there, it would seem! Makes me wish it wasn't so hard to get a law degree - I am sure I could do a much better job than a lot of these attorneys are doing.

Anyway, good luck with your case. At least NOW, he should go out of his way to make SURE there are NO MORE problems, and get your case discharged!

[woohoogirl]

Sorry to the both of you! What a mess!

Woohoo- Are you reaffirming your car? If so, get those papers changed. My sister (in the repo dept of a bank) told me that if we didn't get the car reaffirmed, in the paperwork, then they wouldn't hesitate coming and getting it. I, too, found some errors on my paperwork but it was on a Friday (before the Monday holiday) and couldn't change it. Luckily, the trustee never asked about it and he gave us a "no asset for distribution" the day after our 341. But if he had asked, I would be legally obligated to tell him. My figures didn't match the "actual" breakdown on Schedule I & J but my attorney said not to worry, as well.

Good Luck

I talked to the paralegal again just now, and she said that she had talked to the attorney and he said not to worry about the car payment not being listed. We fluffed up some other expenses so actually paying my car payment isn't a problem. On my statement of intent I plan to keep the car (and I've never been late). I wonder, sometimes if I would have been better off going pro se

[aachudneymiles]

wow ... he should firer that dumbie , she had to get your matrix mixed up with someone elses at one point.. sorry ... what is the next step .. amend eveything?

[dp1969]

Sorry to hear about your attorney. I'm not as pleased with mine after filing as I was initially. My car payment has been left off and I kept talking to the paralegal and she keeps telling me it's not a big deal. Excuse me, but my forms aren't correct and I didn't notice it when I signed them (I was so busy looking at everything else) and my paystub she filed wasn't the most current one. The one she filed has no taxes coming out and doesn't show the increase in the cost of my health insurance.
I wish I had some answers for ya, but I can say I feel like I'm sitting in the same boat with ya.

Sorry to the both of you! What a mess!

Woohoo- Are you reaffirming your car? If so, get those papers changed. My sister (in the repo dept of a bank) told me that if we didn't get the car reaffirmed, in the paperwork, then they wouldn't hesitate coming and getting it. I, too, found some errors on my paperwork but it was on a Friday (before the Monday holiday) and couldn't change it. Luckily, the trustee never asked about it and he gave us a "no asset for distribution" the day after our 341. But if he had asked, I would be legally obligated to tell him. My figures didn't match the "actual" breakdown on Schedule I & J but my attorney said not to worry, as well.

Good Luck

[BKFLA]

If it makes you feel any better, mine left stuff out too, I've emailed him so often to correct things, I think he should offer me a job there! LOL. Sorry to hear what you're going through. I guess there are so many BKs now that they're taking more than they can handle....

[woohoogirl]

Sorry to hear about your attorney. I'm not as pleased with mine after filing as I was initially. My car payment has been left off and I kept talking to the paralegal and she keeps telling me it's not a big deal. Excuse me, but my forms aren't correct and I didn't notice it when I signed them (I was so busy looking at everything else) and my paystub she filed wasn't the most current one. The one she filed has no taxes coming out and doesn't show the increase in the cost of my health insurance.
I wish I had some answers for ya, but I can say I feel like I'm sitting in the same boat with ya.