341 meeting didn't go as planned:(

[Confused78]

Thanks!

[Kingxray]

PACER will provide you with up to date info, faster than snail mail but it could scare you too, as it did me. The website is http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/links.pl#BKCTS You need a credit card to access the info immediately but it is only .08 cents per page. Our state (WI) is pretty current with info, as I am sure yours will be too. Good luck.

[Confused78]

Should I be checking on pacer to see what is going on on there? Is it going to provide me with answers that I don't know now? After we file a correction to the expenses on Monday will it update on there and show if the accepted it or not? I have never used pacer and know nothing about it so any info would be helpful. Thank you all so much!

[Genenco]

punch in your zip code and family of 5 if you look to the right it should should you your state allowables for some things...


http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/means-test/

Dang, that's interesting..Heh! I make less then the 6 month average median income by about 5K Yep, make about $19K but that (For me) is a WHOLE YEAR!

Sure do wish I made 4K a month. Of course, I'd probably be another of those in the BK rooms anyway!

[Confused78]

Confused, sorry you're going through this. As you're adjusting your expenses to reflect reality, you should document how you came up with the numbers you're using and get together receipts if possible. I think it's likely you'll be asked for them, especially if they are in excess of IRS standards or are not specified in the standards. With a continued 341, the best advice I can give is to sit down once you've amended your petition and jot down questions you think the UST is likely to ask, expenses you think the UST attorney might hammer you about. A day or two before the hearing, practice answering the questions concisely and/or justifying the expenses with or without receipts (brief answers, just the facts). Being prepared will take away a lot of the anxiety and will make it less likely that you'll dig yourself a hole under stress. After all, you're not going to be convincing to the trustees if you don't sound confident in your own answers.

Don't be alarmed if you see a statement of presumed abuse filed within 10 days of your 341. It is a very scary looking thing (I remember feeling like I was accused of armed robbery) unless you understand its purpose. It means only that it appears there's a possibility you have at least some ability to repay your debt. It is the beginning of negotiations, and that's why it's a bankruptcy "petition".

Will I recieve that within 10 days of the 341 I had on Monday or the one that is scheduled for the 20th? I am so scared that this is all going to back fire on me somehow. I don't know what I will do if I have to file chapter 13 instead. Do you think I will get drilled harder since it was rescheduled? Also what will happen after the 341? Will I know from that meeting if I will have any futher problems?
Thanks!

[Help!]

Confused, sorry you're going through this. As you're adjusting your expenses to reflect reality, you should document how you came up with the numbers you're using and get together receipts if possible. I think it's likely you'll be asked for them, especially if they are in excess of IRS standards or are not specified in the standards. With a continued 341, the best advice I can give is to sit down once you've amended your petition and jot down questions you think the UST is likely to ask, expenses you think the UST attorney might hammer you about. A day or two before the hearing, practice answering the questions concisely and/or justifying the expenses with or without receipts (brief answers, just the facts). Being prepared will take away a lot of the anxiety and will make it less likely that you'll dig yourself a hole under stress. After all, you're not going to be convincing to the trustees if you don't sound confident in your own answers.

Don't be alarmed if you see a statement of presumed abuse filed within 10 days of your 341. It is a very scary looking thing (I remember feeling like I was accused of armed robbery) unless you understand its purpose. It means only that it appears there's a possibility you have at least some ability to repay your debt. It is the beginning of negotiations, and that's why it's a bankruptcy "petition".

[Confused78]

punch in your zip code and family of 5 if you look to the right it should should you your state allowables for some things...


http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/means-test/

Thanks!

[B65]

try here

punch in your zip code and family of 5 if you look to the right it should should you your state allowables for some things...

http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/means-test/

[Confused78]

make sure you have your numbers right especially for a family of 5.. if you go to the means test page it will tell you what the allowable numbers are in your area for food, rent/mortgage/ clothes cars.. I know in my state food and supplies and clothing come up to 1650 a month.

B

Where do you find the means test page? Thanks so much for your help!

[B65]

confused

make sure you have your numbers right especially for a family of 5.. if you go to the means test page it will tell you what the allowable numbers are in your area for food, rent/mortgage/ clothes cars.. I know in my state food and supplies and clothing come up to 1650 a month.

B

[Confused78]

Sorry you had a continuance, I hope it all smooths out in the end

Thank you!

[Confused78]

There's still hope!

The lady before us at our 341 meeting had exactly the same problem along with so many other issues I was getting embarassed for her as I listened to it all. Among other things, the US Trustee participated by telephone and had some really tough questions and asked for a bunch of additional documents. She had visited two previous attorneys and they turned her away and she filed with a local creep for which I had little respect and I ended up having less. Obviously her case was questionable from the beginning!

This low budget attorney filed her case showing that she had disposable income and also the presumption of abuse! (Why would ANY attorney file a case like that?) The DAY BEFORE the 341 he amended her petition to show that she magically had no more disposable income. Needless to say, her 341 was continued 30 days later.

In the end none of it mattered and she actually got her discharge a few days before I got mine. I was completely amazed!

Use the forum to help keep an eye on your attorney from the sidelines and there's a good chance you'll be okay.

I think she may have said something about "presumption of abuse" of abuse as well. What does that mean? They rambled on so quickly that I had no idea what was going on. I just really hope that changing the numbers (which some of them are low) doesn't screw me in the end. I guess I don't have much choice. I just can't figure out why he would have filed it that way if it was going to cause problems. It would have been so much easier to change the amount prior to them seeing the form. Now I am worried that they will question the changes.


I need some help figuring out where to raise our numbers. For example we only have $50.00 down for recreation do you think we could say $100.00 for a family of 5? I am not sure if they question a higher amount since it isn't a need. I think we guessed under on alot of the number so raising them shouldn't be to much of a problem. I know our cell phones are 150.00 and he only put down 50.00 so right there is an extra 100.00 and I have the bills to back the amount.
Thanks so much for listening to me ramble. I just need my new 341 date to come so I can stop stressing!

[Confused78]

So sorry, this sucks! You were ready emotionally for your 341 and now it's been extended! I'd be on the phone to my attorney ASAP!

Good Luck!

Oh I was, I called him from the parking lot. I go in on Monday to go back over the forms and to change some of the numbers.

[Confused78]

I'm sorry for you.

This is not lawyer bashing. This lawyer was irresponsible. First, to even have a petition in front of the Trustee at a 341 where you don't show up, send your assistant, and Schedule J and/or Form B22A show a $425/month surplus?

Wow.

I do have to say I liked the assistance a whole lot more than him. It was my first time ever meeting her and she was super nice and very willing to stay there and talk with me after it was over. However, I am really starting to not like him. As soon as the lady said about the forms to look at and (I think she said something about fraud) the assistance said right away about needing more time to amend the papers.
I just hope this doesn't cause them to question why the number were changed.

[Confused78]

I know how you feel right now. My last day for objections was today and the UST file for an extension TODAY!!!

I am so sorry for you. I know how you feel. It sucks. Your attorney will correct the numbers and then i bet your 341 will go smoothly after that. I will keep my fingers crossed for you......

Sorry to hear about your case! That must totally suck! I will be keeping my fingers crossed for you that the extension passes without any problems.
Thanks for the positive words, I am sick with worry and barely slept last night. I can't wait until this is all over with.