My first post - some complicated questions..

[IBroke]

Yes...this is the truth!

IBroke, I'm sure you will find an answer to this car situation if anyone can its you.

Yeah, hopefully..

It's a bit strange now that we have 2 threads about this issue but I think it's important to keep both up to date. I def. want to avoid that somebody might end up drawing false conclusions due to my input.

[StartingOver08]

Join the "broke RE agents of america." - jb

Yes...this is the truth!

IBroke, I'm sure you will find an answer to this car situation if anyone can its you.

[IBroke]

Well, today, I decided to take this matter in my own hands and I e-mailed the attorney in Orlando who wrote that article about using carmax. As soon as I get a reply, I'll let you know.

[IBroke]

So today, my attorney told me that Trustees in my district (Florida middle) don't accept carmax - they would insist on NADA. In my case, that would be a difference of more than 100%

I'm truely asking myself why the other guy from Orlando is mentioning carmax..??

[jeb]

And yeah, Tamp area - my mum and I were in the Real Estate business - now go figure why I'm posting here..

Join the "broke RE agents of america." - jb

[jeb]

oh, clap clap! Tampa Bay, eh? Just noticed that. Lots of us on here, it seems.

I think the whole state of FL is going into BK. - jb

[IBroke]

My creditor GMAC would not work with me to revalue the car because of joint title on my car,. I am upside down by 2000. If you Mother is filing also, why are you worried about a mark on her credit.

From what I can tell, your situation might be different. It looks like you wanted to negotiate your reaffirmation.

Not every account IIB (Included in Bankruptcy) on your credit report is treated the same way. You are better off WITHOUT late payments.

Don't confirm Give the car back in your bankruptcy

I don't want to confirm/reaffirm. I want to REDEEM.
Why should I take a chance on craigslist and possibly end up with a piece of junk if I could buy the car I currently drive and know that it's reliable?

Of course, if it turns out that I have to get a different car then that's what's going to happen - but why shouldn't I go for it? I already paid more than $3,000 on that car..

[Floridagail]

My creditor GMAC would not work with me to revalue the car because of joint title on my car,. I am upside down by 2000. If you Mother is filing also, why are you worried about a mark on her credit. Don't confirm Give the car back in your bankruptcy
by a car on Craigslist.

Just my opinion

[IBroke]

If you're unemployed and have no assets, why are you filing bk? You have nothing anyone can take.Wait until you have some stability in your financial life. Make sure you have a job with insurance benefits at a minimum. You don't want to lay the bk card and then, have a serious illness amd no insurance and you've already filed bk.

I'm 29 and right now, I can't wait for an illness to get the best deal for my BK.

I thought abut this step for quite a while - but with a total debt of about $350K with more than 20 creditors (including a $30K judgement), waiting would only makes things worse.

The decent job is out of reach with that credit-report and with a judgement.

As soon as I would get the job I'm looking for, the judgement is waiting and I can assure you this one won't be the only one.

Right now, a BK would INCREASE my credit-score rather than dragging it down.

Fortunately, in case of an illness, I'm still holding my German passport (have double-nationality). If something goes terrible wrong with my health, social security takes care of me (America is a great country - but there are other countries where you are far better off when you're sick AND poor).

[keepmine]

If you're unemployed and have no assets, why are you filing bk? You have nothing anyone can take.Wait until you have some stability in your financial life. Make sure you have a job with insurance benefits at a minimum. You don't want to lay the bk card and then, have a serious illness amd no insurance and you've already filed bk.

[IBroke]

Right now, I'm shocked!

I posted my situation on a different board and was told I could only Redeem if I would pay the entire BALANCE of the loan (rather than the value of the car) due to my co-signer. The judge/trustee wouldn't even have the option to approve a redemption.

If that's the case, what if I would wait until my mum is ready and file with her the same day? Could I then redeem?

[IBroke]

You're welcome! It's very difficult to find bulletproof information about this topic. I visited a ton of websites over the last few days.

We bought that car out of an emergency because all the cars we previously owned were to expensive and went to the repo. 7 months ago, we purchased our current car, a 2000 Mercury Sable with 88K miles from a "buy here, pay here" dealership. At that time, we were happy to get a loan at all.

The purchase price was more than $9K and I knew exactly that price was ridiculously high..

We made a down-payment of $1300 and are now paying $300/month for a total of 36 months. That gives you an idea of the astronomic interest-rate.

So up 'til now, we already paid $3,500 for that beater and if they get an additional $1,500, I honestly don't see what they have "lost"...

Of course, they would like to take it back and put a new $9K window-sticker on it and do the same thing again.

I'm unemployed, have no assets at all and will share that car with my mother. If trustees in my district used the lower trade-in value or even Carmax (which won't be higher, I'm sure about that) before and believe I have to pay retail, I will DEMAND an explaination why different rules apply to different people although they are filing in the same district. I'm burning for that answer!

[StartingOver08]

That's an excellent post! There are many that have filed in your district (Middle District of Fl) that have had their values challenged (check FloridaGuy's posts). If you have that valuation from Carmax when you fill out your schedules then you at least have third party documentation to supply if the Trustee challenges your car value!

Thanks for posting that solution!

[IBroke]

Only if the Trustee allows you to use trade in. My Trustee required us to use Retail.

Remembert, the Trustee is not looking for actual value , they are looking for assets. If you get a free attorney consult (even if you ultimately decide you can not afford an attorney) the attorney will tell you which value is the accepted value in your district.

Thanks! I'm going to schedule a free consultation with an attorney and clear that issue. The prior post just sounded like the CREDITOR would set the value and the decision would be with them - and that didn't make sense to me.

EDIT: Here's what I found from an Attorney from Orlando - not too far away from me..:

Bankruptcy trustees have in the past determined the value of a debtor’s car by using the average of the wholesale and retail value in the NADA car book (the yellow book). In the past few months car values have plummeted because of the credit problems in the economy and the overall recession. The NADA book has not kept pace with the decline in car values. This week I discovered that some bankruptcy trustees in our division are encouraging debtors to get trade-in appraisals from national car companies such as Carmax. The Trustees are accepting these appraisals in lieu of the NADA values.


For example, one of my clients filed a bankruptcy petition on which he valued a used car at $3,000. There was no lien on the car. The car had, therefore, $2,000 of non-exempt equity. At the creditors meeting the Trustee encouraged the debtor to get a current appraisal. The next day the debtor obtained from Carmax an appraisal of $500 for the same car. Bankruptcy debtors should get market appraisals for their cars before filling out bankruptcy petitions. Your bankruptcy attorney is not a car valuation expert, and he is unlikely to change your valuation of your vehicle. The market for used cars is almost as depressed as the real estate market. Debtors should insist that their vehicle equity is based on current market values rather than slow-changing valuations in used car price books.

[StartingOver08]

Only if the Trustee allows you to use trade in. My Trustee required us to use Retail.

Remembert, the Trustee is not looking for actual value , they are looking for assets. If you get a free attorney consult (even if you ultimately decide you can not afford an attorney) the attorney will tell you which value is the accepted value in your district.