The emotions of all this bankruptcy syuff

[GWBcasualty]

I disagree wholeheartly. FDR's New Deal programs extended the depression. welfare was a disaster.

He is (rightly so) talking about programs put in place after WW2.

You are thinking the '30s.

[GWBcasualty]

Thank you!

And WHAT did it give us? Very, VERY rich people and very, VERY poor people - with little in between.

It was those, "terrible government programs" - socialism - that came into being after WW2 that gave us - and the world - the greatest middle class in history. (The same middle class that has been getting smaller and smaller over the last 8 years, BTW.)

Pure capitalism - just like pure communism and pure socialism - does not work because of human nature.
Just think where this country - and the world - would be today if Bush had not been elected in 2000. Those attack ads work - all too well. - jb

Well said.

[OhioFiler]

Wow, after the last 8 years of "turn them lose" - them being big business - how could anyone think the economy would run better if left alone.

It never ceases to amaze me that those that push for pure "capitalism" never look at history. For most of the history of the world, that is what we had. For most of the history of this country, that is what we had.

And WHAT did it give us? Very, VERY rich people and very, VERY poor people - with little in between.

It was those, "terrible government programs" - socialism - that came into being after WW2 that gave us - and the world - the greatest middle class in history. (The same middle class that has been getting smaller and smaller over the last 8 years, BTW.)

Pure capitalism - just like pure communism and pure socialism - does not work because of human nature.

We humans are not happy being like everyone else or having what everyone else has. That takes communism and socialism out of the picture.

And we are greedy. That takes pure capitalism out of the picture.

A little of this, a little of that has served this county well - until the "give us capitalism" boys and girls came to control the whole government in 2000.

We are in this mess because of the thinking of "free enterprise" and the total lack of any and all oversite and enforcement of the laws on the books.

Virtually every single government agency that was suppose to oversee something - from banking to the FDA to you name it - was stripped of it's people and told to "back off" on enforcing the laws. For those that can remember, this was done by Reagan, as well.

"The private sector can do it better." is a joke by itself. It has in the past - very recent past - and it will in the future do what they do best - - find a way to screw people out of their money.

Without someone looking over their shoulder and saying, "Nope, can't do that." once in a while, we will continue to be in these messes.

Sadly, the American people are just too dumb to actually think before they vote. The 30 sec attack ads like we see every election is all they base things on. Just think where this country - and the world - would be today if Bush had not been elected in 2000. Those attack ads work - all too well. - jb

I disagree wholeheartly. FDR's New Deal programs extended the depression. welfare was a disaster.

I agree there is a need for some oversight but not the nonsense we live under now.

There were several polls taken after the November election and it was amazing to see how many "too dumb" American people voted for Obama.


I admire your posts jeb, we just occupy opposite ends of the political spectrum and I doubt we could ever agree on political solutions. I'd still buy you a beer and spend some time enjoying life with you!

[jeb]

I believe the free market corrects itself. Government intervention created the problem of the subprime mortgages. I don't believe government can fix it with more intervention.

Wow, after the last 8 years of "turn them lose" - them being big business - how could anyone think the economy would run better if left alone.

It never ceases to amaze me that those that push for pure "capitalism" never look at history. For most of the history of the world, that is what we had. For most of the history of this country, that is what we had.

And WHAT did it give us? Very, VERY rich people and very, VERY poor people - with little in between.

It was those, "terrible government programs" - socialism - that came into being after WW2 that gave us - and the world - the greatest middle class in history. (The same middle class that has been getting smaller and smaller over the last 8 years, BTW.)

Pure capitalism - just like pure communism and pure socialism - does not work because of human nature.

We humans are not happy being like everyone else or having what everyone else has. That takes communism and socialism out of the picture.

And we are greedy. That takes pure capitalism out of the picture.

A little of this, a little of that has served this county well - until the "give us capitalism" boys and girls came to control the whole government in 2000.

We are in this mess because of the thinking of "free enterprise" and the total lack of any and all oversite and enforcement of the laws on the books.

Virtually every single government agency that was suppose to oversee something - from banking to the FDA to you name it - was stripped of it's people and told to "back off" on enforcing the laws. For those that can remember, this was done by Reagan, as well.

"The private sector can do it better." is a joke by itself. It has in the past - very recent past - and it will in the future do what they do best - - find a way to screw people out of their money.

Without someone looking over their shoulder and saying, "Nope, can't do that." once in a while, we will continue to be in these messes.

Sadly, the American people are just too dumb to actually think before they vote. The 30 sec attack ads like we see every election is all they base things on. Just think where this country - and the world - would be today if Bush had not been elected in 2000. Those attack ads work - all too well. - jb

[gogetter76]

WOW.... a wealth of information!!!!

Thanks again all and reading this makes me feel much much better.

Thank you for sharing your stories.

[OhioFiler]

Ohio, I have been in the Real Estate business for many years - saw this mess coming 3-4 years ago when lenders made loans to people I wouldn't have loaned 10 cents.

Also, have worked with short sales where lenders would cut me a deal at 40 cents on the dollar but would not even talk to the home owners.

And it just defies logic for a lender to foreclose on someone that is able to pay maybe 80% of their payment. The bank has something over $20,000.00 invested in the foreclosure process, discounts the house 50-60 or more %, still can't sell it, ends up being fined by the city/county because they don't keep the property up, and on and on and . . .

The lenders were dumb enough to make these loans and many of us were dumb enough to think everything would be rosy forever. The mess is here - President Obama,s way is about the only way out of it and at least gives us some hope that this mess will not remain around for another 10 years - or until some other idiot starts another war to get us out of it.

I believe the free market corrects itself. Government intervention created the problem of the subprime mortgages. I don't believe government can fix it with more intervention.

At some point, the need for rental property will create a market for decent rental properties. Savvy investors will buy depressed price houses and begin making plenty of money. This will lead to additional interest from other investors and home prices will rise. The government has no role in this process. I can't think of one government program that couldn't be run smoother in the private sector.

[jeb]

They are referring to Barack O'bama's plan to halt foreclosures by paying banks to adjust mortgages. I think it's a horrible idea just as your associates think.

Ohio, I have been in the Real Estate business for many years - saw this mess coming 3-4 years ago when lenders made loans to people I wouldn't have loaned 10 cents.

Also, have worked with short sales where lenders would cut me a deal at 40 cents on the dollar but would not even talk to the home owners.

And it just defies logic for a lender to foreclose on someone that is able to pay maybe 80% of their payment. The bank has something over $20,000.00 invested in the foreclosure process, discounts the house 50-60 or more %, still can't sell it, ends up being fined by the city/county because they don't keep the property up, and on and on and . . .

The lenders were dumb enough to make these loans and many of us were dumb enough to think everything would be rosy forever. The mess is here - President Obama,s way is about the only way out of it and at least gives us some hope that this mess will not remain around for another 10 years - or until some other idiot starts another war to get us out of it.

[jeb]

"no one is going to die, no one is going to jail" - Kingxray

King, just keep that in mind and remember, if it's something YOU have no control over, don't worry about it. (I know, I know - easier said than done - but just spending time here will slowly get the worrying under control. This site is great!) - jb

[LuciluS]

Was rocking along making minimum monthly payments on our Credit Cards until they raised the minimum from 2% to 4% and some raised the interest. Knew in middle of September I was going to bounce some checks if I kept paying.

Took our information to an Attorney about the end of Sept. 08 after filing out forms for debt consilidation and they told me to go see an Attorney. Managed to 'squeeze out' the name of a good Attorney from the Debt place as we live in a small community.

Attorney quickly glanced at it and said Yes definitely a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. Quit paying credit cards. However, he didn't tell me my QDRO monthly payments would be included in the Means Tests. He did say my SS Disability would not be included in income, but would have to use it for the actual Income vs. Expenses.

Hubby is an Over the Road truck driver and for taxes we have always used the % allowed by the IRS instead of hubby keeping receipts. He didn't mention we needed to keep receipts at Sept. meeting. Didn't realize bankruptcy was figured on Gross Income and not Net.

Our medical bills and prescriptions are over $12,000 a yr and hubby usually makes $36500 a yr. Hubby found this forum and I've researched a lot of information and gained a lot from this forum ad will continue to research as our Attorney is So Busy and he is specifically a BK Attorney.

Closed my QDRO and hopefully will get my finally check of gross $2,870 & deposited into checking account before end of February. Also, was rear-ended in 3/05...had 5 surgeries & just got my measly settlement of $5,000 which I can document where it was spent...mostly $4,664 of dental work.

See a PM Doctor every month. Had a breast cancer scare this month (runs in my family) & found out I have Basal Cell Carcinoma Cancer on my Breast. Scheduled for surgery and reconstruction on 3/16/09. None of those bills have been paid because Insurance is so slow in paying. I just got an EOB from 1/19 yesterday.

I've lost almost 30 lbs. since my first appt. with Attorney. I have spent hours and hours on EBay & Craig's list for completion of our assets. Wow, so depressing to see what my 'Old' furniture is worth. I've cried, cried & cried. I get so upset over the least little thing that is not the norm.

Because we thought we would be filing in January the phone calls are starting again. CitiCard calls starting at 7:30 am, on the hour, until 10 pm. Of course, when I talked to the Attorney last week, he told me to quit answering the phone.

I'm depressed. Regular doctor put me on an Anti-Depressant, but then she took away my Ambien in 1/09. Called last week & she doubled the AD, but no sleeping pill. I still owe medical bills from 2008. I know they can be included in our Chapter 7 and an ambulance bill will be, BUT I'm afraid if I don't pay the Surgery Center the $295 I owe from the last time they burned the nerve roots in my neck, they will not accept me again.

Thankfully, I just switched Pain Management Doctors and he didn't request the RF's again. I've got to get fitted for a brace for my left foot/leg as it has permanent nerve damage and I'm falling. I'm on Morphine 3x a day and use Tramadol 6 x a days and many other meds and have a Spinal Cord Implanted.

Hubby had 5 bypass surgery in 2/07 & a Pacemaker in 6/07 at 50 yrs. old. Praise the Lord, he was able to go back to driving a big Rig. He does most of the grocery shopping on the weekends as I cannot walk Wal-Mart SuperCenter nor our little grocery store in our local town. I have a scooter with a remote control to get it out of the van, but gee, you can only put so much in a small hamper basket I put in the middle.

To think in Nov. 2007, my Credit Score was so good I was told by our Mortgage Company, we could buy a house up to $250,000 and did not even have to give them any Money info - no Pay Stubs, taxes - Nothing! We bought one for $119,400 which is closer to my doctors and hospitals.

My father would have a Stroke if he knew I was filing for Bankruptcy and thank goodness, we live in a different County than he and my step-mom live in. My sister knows and because I owe her money & again, found out on this forum I can't pay her back until after bankruptcy, she no longer will talk or email me.

We could probably pass the Means Tests with my last QDRO check, but I don't even want to go there as I've read here on this forum, someone higher up than the Trustee usually gets involved. I still will not have receipts for 12 months for grocery, gas etc. I have all our utilities, cc statements, etc. At least, I will have 6 mths. worth of hubby's trucking expenses. BTW, he is NOT an owner operator, but still has to pay for his meals, showers, etc.

O and for the guy who spent money on a Dog, I know how you feel. We've spent over $2,000 since last Oct. on our little shih tzu who now has to have prescription dog food and prescription medicine. Anybody makes a smart remark doesn't have a Kind Heart! Our dog is all I have from Sun. Morning until late Friday night as hubby is gone. Just so happens, he left Tues. afternoon of this week, because he had a Root Canal. Well he won't be home until Tuesday.


Now, it looks like we will not be filing until Aug. 31,2009 as our Attorney files all bankruptcies the last day of each month since they are filed in Federal Court in the capital city, Little Rock. I'm not really embarrassed at filing Bankruptcy; it's just the paperwork is so tedious & I get to the point where I can't focus on it after about 3 hrs. a day. These are just the forms the Attorney gave us. Of course, I'm not able to write legible because of arthritis, so I'm typing them.

Emotions? You name them.....I've had em all!

Luci

[UhOh]

Can you pay the monthly fee with a debit card that has the Mastercard or Visa logo? That's what I do. It works just like a credit card but comes out of my checking account.

Oh duh... I guess I could do that couldn't I? Sometimes I just need a whack upside the head to reset my mind.

[WorkingItOut]

Its a catch 22 thing. I have the option to pay all $1800 directly or do cc payments $315 monthly. I don't have that one time payment in cash available but manage the smaller amount. sad story huh?

Can you pay the monthly fee with a debit card that has the Mastercard or Visa logo? That's what I do. It works just like a credit card but comes out of my checking account.

[taramaxed]

I agree I think the hardest part was acceptance. Once you are on the path, it's a much easier road, it gives you focus... purpose.

Couldn't agree more!! I was actually just saying to my friend the other day that I didn't know if I was growing up or what was going on but I just feel clearer lately. Its wierd because I feel like our life is a big mess.

[UhOh]

Its a catch 22 thing. I have the option to pay all $1800 directly or do cc payments $315 monthly. I don't have that one time payment in cash available but manage the smaller amount. sad story huh?

[OhioFiler]

I thought it was my medication making me feel stresses of daily life during this financial crisis in some sort of exaggerated lens. I have been lurking around this forum for a while. Every once in a while a thread is interesting for its "feelings" rather than its education. This is one of them.

I haven't slept well for quite some time. Nothing is different in my life for the past few months so I thought it was my medication mix or just the winter blahs.

It has been 82 days since I gave up using credit cards for those lifestyle purchases. The only exception is my auto insurance which is still hitting the credit card monthly. I pay enough to cover it and the finance charges on that one card. It has been rough adjusting and I swear I almost cannot do it. I guess it has been too many years of just using a credit card to get whatever I felt like buying at the time. But this forum is my strength to say "cash only".

I haven't seen a lawyer yet. I know I will do that soon. Thanks for your posting...I'm not alone.

You should be paying your insurance directly not via cc.

[UhOh]

I thought it was my medication making me feel stresses of daily life during this financial crisis in some sort of exaggerated lens. I have been lurking around this forum for a while. Every once in a while a thread is interesting for its "feelings" rather than its education. This is one of them.

I haven't slept well for quite some time. Nothing is different in my life for the past few months so I thought it was my medication mix or just the winter blahs.

It has been 82 days since I gave up using credit cards for those lifestyle purchases. The only exception is my auto insurance which is still hitting the credit card monthly. I pay enough to cover it and the finance charges on that one card. It has been rough adjusting and I swear I almost cannot do it. I guess it has been too many years of just using a credit card to get whatever I felt like buying at the time. But this forum is my strength to say "cash only".

I haven't seen a lawyer yet. I know I will do that soon. Thanks for your posting...I'm not alone.