Absolutely BRUTAL 341-Florida Middle

[JackBondLove]

I do wonder if the US is truly capable of incarcerating people who lie about the value of their assets or hide money etc especially with all the hard core criminals who are currently on our streets that they cannot afford to incarcerate or do not have the will to do so.

No need for incarceration. Just making the debt non-dischargeable is enough. In any case, the trustee's job at the 341 is to vet the filing documents, and ask for a proper trail of paperwork that proves why any assets that were around at some earlier time are not around now, etc. The trustee will simply not move forward with the case until all the documentation matches the filing documents.

Now, if the petitioner were to produce fake documents, then the trustee would have the ability to refer the case to the US Attorney for perjury, and some time in teh slammer.

Is there a world court with a world trustee that will preside over the US when it defaults on all of its debt?

No, the debtor nation can simply pass a law saying that it and it alone can legally default on such debt, and that is that. The only assets that would be at risk would be reserves held at international banks or debt owed by other nations. Of course to do so would have the similar effect of us defaulting on our unsecured creditors - they would be wary of the nation defaulting in the future, and therefore not very interested in loaning any money.

Of course, if the debt is written in the currency of the debtor nation, that nation does not even have to officially default, since it can always "quantitatively ease" its money supply (i.e., print money) to take care of any debt, which is really a backhanded way of defaulting.

Either way in the end, a loan to a nation should always be considered as an unsecured loan.

Now as for a USA state (or any subnational governmental entity), I don't how that would work. We may found out soon!

[ironpirate]

I think of would be scared to file BK in the middle district in FL. Hear a lot of crazy stories.

[tcreegan]

Hi breeze48,

Don't take it personally if the other posters don't reply, the posts were from Jan and last year...

Tom in Colo

[Breeze48]

Yes SSJ

[DeadManCrawling]

I cannot remember her initials, now, strangely.

That sounds familiar.

She was a rather severe looking woman with dirty-blonde hair and a very stern attitude. Rightfully so, in a few cases.

Amazing what people were trying to get away with.

I will look tomorrow and see if I wrote her name down. I won't post it, of course, but may be able to confirm.

In fact, we were planning on going back Monday to watch the second part of Armani Man's 341, to see what happens. We were pretty interested in that unfolding mess.

Best,

-dmc

[DivorceRuinedMe]

I also filed Middle District of FL and I think I had this same trustee. Were her initials SSJ?

[danaf]

Huge Congrats! Nothing better than thorough preparation and I'd say 3 yrs worth is more than thorough. Enjoy your discharge & new beginning.

[Widdle]

Wow --- and Stay off Pacer!

Wow, didn't know that the Tampa Division was so hellbent on appraisals.

That 341 meeting was nerve racking, I started reading your post yesterday and had to close it halfway down.

341's like that scares me.

Good thing the courthouses scan for weapons!!

Anyway, congrats on your 341 and try to stay off Pacer.

[Fresh]

Pure Greed and Sense of Entitlement

DMC,

Congratulations to you and thanks for sharing this great information.

What you said about the man in the Armani suit applies to what is doing this country in big time: pure greed and a sense of entitlement with NOTHING to back it up.

[DeadManCrawling]

In the Tampa 341 room there is a sign.

It is massive, menacing, and looms over the trustee's shoulder, directly into your corneas.

Here is an approximation of what it reads:

THE FBI PROSECUTES BANKRUPTCY FRAUD.

Below that is a list of penalties and sanctions. I cannot recall all the words, but it was very intimidating. Not as good as the above digital sign idea. That would be cool, to see it update every few minutes as another joker got hauled off to meet new friends and lovers.

Even as it was, I cannot imagine looking at the trustee beneath that sign and trying to conceal assets. Pure greed, stupidity, arrogance and ignorance.

Best,

-dmc

[dakota112]

It seems to me that if the Bk Court wanted to cut down on Fraud, they should impose a more intimidating Venue. There should be posted at the 341 meeting a digital sign updated daily with the number of folks incarcerated that week, mont, and year in that district for committing fraud. I think that would make people think twice about hindering or delaying the process. I do wonder if the US is truly capable of incarcerating people who lie about the value of their assets or hide money etc especially with all the hard core criminals who are currently on our streets that they cannot afford to incarcerate or do not have the will to do so. Such as repeat sex offenders, bank robbers, thieves, arsonists and on and on. Might be that when it comes to money , justice is more important than assault and battery on our citizens. What gets me the most about this whole process is that it seems so arbitrary anyway ( TT or UST personality dependent). In the end it is not just us, but the whole country that is bankrupt. Is there a world court with a world trustee that will preside over the US when it defaults on all of its debt?

[seth]

great story! let me tell you how my 341 unfolded...it was literally 2 minutes...give or take 30 seconds

my appt was at 3:30pm. I arrived with the wife, my lawyer arrived 5 minutes later at 3:15. the LINE was sooooooooooooo LONG it was like a zoo. at around 5:15 (15 minutes before closing), the trustee called us in. tape recorder on, asked as a series of questions. she did it so fast that i was stuttering to say the yes and no's.....then she smiled at us and said youre done and good luck to you guys...

[JRScott]

Congrats, DMC!! But you are a grinch for scaring us with that title!!

I do hope Armani Man goes down in flames. He's poster boy for why Congress tightened up the BK rules in 2005.

I'm still interviewing attorneys, but I do ask them if "all the dozen Ch 7 trustees know and love them madly"...sort of jokingly but to see how they respond. All said they get along with everyone, and one told me there is a "well-feared one" (sounds like yours but I'm in TX) but that said trustee "loves his firm" because their paperwork is always in order. Other two said in effect they just make extra extra sure they dot i's and cross t's if they pull this guy...3rd atty actually told me his name and how he tries to gauge the trustee's case load (or something like that) when he's about to file for someone. I even asked if the lawyer can immediately "unfile" (claim some mistake or whatever) if they pull this guy and of course the answer is no....
My personality is such that I will fret constantly that I'll get this meanie!!

Anyway...you and your family have a MerriER Christmas than you might have imagined before the 341!

Trustees are assigned by rotation order in most districts so yes if you know that a case might be borderline you can file it such that you don't get the hardnosed one , or at least are prepared for it.

[marie]

I have talked with an attorney, and I am so uptight, but he seemed to think It would not be problematic. Actually I have spoken with 3, and the last one specializes in Business law and asset protection. I went with him.

He told me that the trustees and court clerks love to work with his paralegal lady assistant because she knows exactly what to do and the forms are always submitted just the way they want them

[nickifan]

Congrats, DMC!! But you are a grinch for scaring us with that title!!

I do hope Armani Man goes down in flames. He's poster boy for why Congress tightened up the BK rules in 2005.

I'm still interviewing attorneys, but I do ask them if "all the dozen Ch 7 trustees know and love them madly"...sort of jokingly but to see how they respond. All said they get along with everyone, and one told me there is a "well-feared one" (sounds like yours but I'm in TX) but that said trustee "loves his firm" because their paperwork is always in order. Other two said in effect they just make extra extra sure they dot i's and cross t's if they pull this guy...3rd atty actually told me his name and how he tries to gauge the trustee's case load (or something like that) when he's about to file for someone. I even asked if the lawyer can immediately "unfile" (claim some mistake or whatever) if they pull this guy and of course the answer is no....
My personality is such that I will fret constantly that I'll get this meanie!!

Anyway...you and your family have a MerriER Christmas than you might have imagined before the 341!