Having trouble keeping our heads above water.

[Dannmcg357]

I hate to tell you this but before I got into this mess with charge cards we had no financial problems we had more than enough money to live and save. So if you take out the equation of the cards it will be back to normal.

Remember that women that is blind folded wearing a robe, holding a scale? That scale must balance. The courts aren't going to just eliminate the cc debt and ignore your income and assets. I believe that is what everyone wants to convey to you. That and the fact that you have the means to make that happen with out BK from what you have posted.

[LSUTiger32]

Maybe next vacation you take the family for a raft ride down Da' Nile.

LOL! It ain't just a river in Egypt!!!!

[backtoschool]

I honestly don't know where the IRS gets those numbers from but there is no way anyone out here with a mortgage can live at that level. Maybe a third world country but not in the tri state area. My electric bill alone is 285. And that is running around shutting things off.
I have proof for every expense that I have. NY has the highest rates in the country.It is all legitimate.

Rusty95,

I was in a similar situation to yours when I lived in nyc. (the only difference is that I lived in the city, so my allowable expenses by irs standards were a bit higher)

I made around 180-250k a year depending on my bonus, but had large student loan bills and large credit card bills and a very large rent payment and couldn't make ends meet. When I went to an attorney for a consultation on filing chapter 7 she laughed at me. She said that the nyc area (including Suffolk county) US Trustee's office takes a very hard stand on high income filers. You would have to have huge, provable medical bills, or some other "special circumstance" to even get a lawyer to take your case as a chapter 7 case, and then you would most likely go before the bankruptcy judge and would be guaranteed to go before the US Trustee. Do a search on this board for high income filers in the new york city area and you will see how things go.

I ended up moving and going back to school and only then was I able to file chapter 7.

[OhioFiler]

I originally came here to get some advice, not to have my lifestyle ridiculed.
Not to have every penny I spend analyzed. I am going to give this problem to the end of the summer, if it is not going in a positive direction I am going to see a lawyer to see how this can be worked out.

You've been offered exceptional advice from others who know your plight. No one intended to ridicule your lifestyle though many wanted to analyze how you spend every penny...as a way of helping you.

Look us up again in August. Best of luck to you.

[OhioFiler]

Ya thats the thing I want to do, leave great jobs and a great area and move to a state I don't have a job in or family or friends. That would really solve the problem.

No insult meant and if you took it that way I apologize.


I am happy for you that you have provided you and your children a great place to live.

Maybe you should take a vacation. It's nice to get away from the day to day problems.

I never encouraged you to relocate. I simply wanted you to realize that those of us who live in the third world aren't all that bad off and there really is life outside your tri-state bubble.

We do vacation. Thank you very much for your suggestion!

[newbie2]

Rusty, since you want to keep your home, and a Chapter 7 to discharge the credit card don't probably wouldn't be possible, perhaps try to workout a settlement with those credit card companies. Sometimes a "look, I'm having trouble and trying to avoid bankruptcy.." will be the magic words to get the CC companies involved in reduction of the interest rates to something more manageable for you and your family.

After all, they know if you do file bankruptcy they will receive pennies on the dollar (normally) if nothing at all.

Give it a shot, and good luck to you.

[rusty95]

I originally came here to get some advice, not to have my lifestyle ridiculed.
Not to have every penny I spend analyzed. I am going to give this problem to the end of the summer, if it is not going in a positive direction I am going to see a lawyer to see how this can be worked out.

[rusty95]

Maybe next vacation you take the family for a raft ride down Da' Nile.

Yes this year I think we are going to vacation ion the Swiss Alps.

There is no reason to be a wise azz here.

[rusty95]

You've pegged your problem for me. You think living in one of the most overly taxed, ridiculously priced markets in the country is the place to raise your kid and the rest of us live in some third world location. Your insult makes me laugh.

We own a 1,900 square foot home on one acre of property in one of the highest rated school districts in our state. My mortgage payment and HELOC combined total less than $1,200 per month INCLUDING property taxes and insurance. I have no monthly train fees or likewise progressive hip expenses.

Our kids have a great home, great neighborhood friends and great memories yet we've never summered in the Hamptons or done 10 days in California. Mostly, we just hang out here in our third world foraging for scraps and searching for palm fronds to repair the hutch roof.

For what it's worth, I'll take my third world over your world any day.

Ya thats the thing I want to do, leave great jobs and a great area and move to a state I don't have a job in or family or friends. That would really solve the problem.

No insult meant and if you took it that way I apologize.


I am happy for you that you have provided you and your children a great place to live.

Maybe you should take a vacation. It's nice to get away from the day to day problems.

[rusty95]

Rusty man, do all of us a favor and get to an attorney. Maybe hearing it from him will make you understand. No one here is trying to take your house from you, but we all have been through this process and whether you want to hear what is going to happen or not, you asked.

So far nothing makes sense here.

1. You make $181K but only bring home $105K? That is 42% of your income not coming home and you already mentioned how high your exemptions are. You cannot put $800 a month into a 401K while paying off 401K loans. That makes no sense. You seriously need to consider lowering or temporarily suspending 401K contributions. You have a mess on your hands and need the cash.

2. I totally understand about not wanting to give up your house....and if you are determined to keep it you MUST lower your lifestyle and expenses down to NOTHING. You will have to sacrifice something because right now you will lose the house one way or another. That means brining lunch to work, no eating out, no car payments, and maybe even giving up things like cable TV to make your budget work. I don't care if it is 2% of your gross income, you don't get to spend your gross income. You are at well over 50% of your NET income and you will never get ahead like this. Right now I am at 35% of my NET and it's still a struggle for me at times even with no credit card bills.

3. Vacations? Seriously? Dude, you need a reality check, big time.

4. $4,920 ($4,365 plus $555) divided by $15,083 ($181,000/12) is nearly 33% of your gross. (4920/15083=.326) However when your are only taking home 58% of your gross, it makes those numbers pure insanity. This is not even taking into account that you mentioned the taxes were about to go up.

5. $208 a month for life insurance? Please tell me you don't have trash whole life policies? The last thing in the world you should do is use a life insurance policy as an investment tool. If you are doing it with your financial situation then we found something worse.

Keep doing it "your way" and you will lose the house whether it is through BK or foreclosure. You cannot keep doing things "your way". The quicker you learn that the more of a chance you might have to turn this around. If you are dead set on filing and dead set on keeping the house then go ahead. Nothing we are going to say is going to change your mind. I just don't see how a CH13 payment plan in addition to your mortgage payment that will be well over $5,000 (with increase in taxes) on a $8,500 income (after you change exemptions) is going to help you. To each his own though.

You make 6 figures a year, not a month.

#1- Taxes, 401k, 401k loans, medical ins, life ins, plus all the other misc deductions. I average 800 to 1000 a week in deductions. My wife fills in the rest.

#2 The house stays, The house stays the mortgage no matter what you think is not the problem, The cards are. If you have lung cancer are you going to cut your leg off.

#3 Vacations..yes. We scrounge the money up for them. Like I said before, you ask a question and I will answer it to the best I can. You may not like the answer.

#4 I don't think it is insane, we had plenty of cash before we got into trouble with the cards.

#5 Yes 208 for insurance. Term insurance. 500,000 each. i got it when I was 45, thats why it is more. 500,000 to cover the mortgage. We don't want the other to be homeless if one dies. One less worry.

How can I lose my house. I pay the mortgage before everything else.

[OhioFiler]

I hate to tell you this but before I got into this mess with charge cards we had no financial problems we had more than enough money to live and save. So if you take out the equation of the cards it will be back to normal.

As I said before the house is not the problem we can handle the payments on the house. If it was a problem I would have stopped paying the mortgage a long time ago. Lets see 4400 x 12 = 50400 that pretty much solves the CC problem.

Maybe next vacation you take the family for a raft ride down Da' Nile.

[rusty95]

I hate to tell you this but you have nothing now, financially speaking. So why not sacrifice 3-4 years so you have something in the future? Or you can continue to struggle and maybe in 10-15 years you get out of it. But more then likely you delay the inevitable. The first bump in the road say 2-3 years from now and you are forced in BK7 losing the house and having to fix something that could have been fixed years ago without the BK.

I hate to tell you this but before I got into this mess with charge cards we had no financial problems we had more than enough money to live and save. So if you take out the equation of the cards it will be back to normal.

As I said before the house is not the problem we can handle the payments on the house. If it was a problem I would have stopped paying the mortgage a long time ago. Lets see 4400 x 12 = 50400 that pretty much solves the CC problem.

[OhioFiler]

I honestly don't know where the IRS gets those numbers from but there is no way anyone out here with a mortgage can live at that level. Maybe a third world country but not in the tri state area. My electric bill alone is 285. And that is running around shutting things off.
I have proof for every expense that I have. NY has the highest rates in the country.It is all legitimate.

You've pegged your problem for me. You think living in one of the most overly taxed, ridiculously priced markets in the country is the place to raise your kid and the rest of us live in some third world location. Your insult makes me laugh.

We own a 1,900 square foot home on one acre of property in one of the highest rated school districts in our state. My mortgage payment and HELOC combined total less than $1,200 per month INCLUDING property taxes and insurance. I have no monthly train fees or likewise progressive hip expenses.

Our kids have a great home, great neighborhood friends and great memories yet we've never summered in the Hamptons or done 10 days in California. Mostly, we just hang out here in our third world foraging for scraps and searching for palm fronds to repair the hutch roof.

For what it's worth, I'll take my third world over your world any day.

[LSUTiger32]

Rusty man, do all of us a favor and get to an attorney. Maybe hearing it from him will make you understand. No one here is trying to take your house from you, but we all have been through this process and whether you want to hear what is going to happen or not, you asked.

So far nothing makes sense here.

1. You make $181K but only bring home $105K? That is 42% of your income not coming home and you already mentioned how high your exemptions are. You cannot put $800 a month into a 401K while paying off 401K loans. That makes no sense. You seriously need to consider lowering or temporarily suspending 401K contributions. You have a mess on your hands and need the cash.

2. I totally understand about not wanting to give up your house....and if you are determined to keep it you MUST lower your lifestyle and expenses down to NOTHING. You will have to sacrifice something because right now you will lose the house one way or another. That means brining lunch to work, no eating out, no car payments, and maybe even giving up things like cable TV to make your budget work. I don't care if it is 2% of your gross income, you don't get to spend your gross income. You are at well over 50% of your NET income and you will never get ahead like this. Right now I am at 35% of my NET and it's still a struggle for me at times even with no credit card bills.

3. Vacations? Seriously? Dude, you need a reality check, big time.

4. $4,920 ($4,365 plus $555) divided by $15,083 ($181,000/12) is nearly 33% of your gross. (4920/15083=.326) However when your are only taking home 58% of your gross, it makes those numbers pure insanity. This is not even taking into account that you mentioned the taxes were about to go up.

5. $208 a month for life insurance? Please tell me you don't have trash whole life policies? The last thing in the world you should do is use a life insurance policy as an investment tool. If you are doing it with your financial situation then we found something worse.

Keep doing it "your way" and you will lose the house whether it is through BK or foreclosure. You cannot keep doing things "your way". The quicker you learn that the more of a chance you might have to turn this around. If you are dead set on filing and dead set on keeping the house then go ahead. Nothing we are going to say is going to change your mind. I just don't see how a CH13 payment plan in addition to your mortgage payment that will be well over $5,000 (with increase in taxes) on a $8,500 income (after you change exemptions) is going to help you. To each his own though.

You make 6 figures a year, not a month.

[BrokeOR]

Rusty, you say:

"And as for vacations we always try to find the money to take one, once a year. Last year we went to California for 10 days. Vacations and memories are not the problem."

Combined with all the other info you have shared, then, it all seems to add up to your not being a candidate for Chapter 7. But I am curious, not a lawyer or anything close, and would love to hear what you finally find out.