Stressful Situation

[tcreegan]

Hi dinero,

surely my creditors would understand and settle for at least a portion rather than nothing at all if they force me into bankruptcy. What benefit is it to them if I declare bankruptcy? Is it just being vindictive or is there some financial benefit to them?

My sentiments exactly, you have to apply my brother Eds law: Never attribute to malice anything adequately explained by incompetence.

If you go pro-se, you need to go to your courts website and find the LOBR...local bankruptcy rules. These are exactly what they sound like, things that your individual court does; how to format the creditors matrix, what order to have documents in, what caption to put on documents, no staples-paperclips only, that sort of stuff.

Good luck w/ your filing,

Tom in Colo

[outsidetool]

Yes, I know that Pro Se is fully possible and many people do it with little problem. But I'd go with an attorney if at all feasible. At least consult with a few...mention your issue with being short on cash to retain. I had a similar issue a few years ago, and the atty "worked it out" with me. I'd note that if a $2000 atty fee, as you mentioned, might actually be enough to keep you from even having to file...then perhaps you are really NOT needing to at this time.

[Dinero]

Invaluable Information

Thanks for the invaluable information and moral support folks.

I make a lot of money when there is work, but this accursed recession has gone on longer than anyone expected and become more profound than anyone predicted and brought me to the precipice. Companies are laying people off and cutting the salaries of the ones they keep. It's not a pretty situation out there these days, but we need to stay positive through out this mess and find the way out.

Having a pack of hungry and merciless bill collectors hounding you everyday makes a stressful situation appear even more desperate.

I sure as hell did not want to declare bankruptcy and thought surely my creditors would understand and settle for at least a portion rather than nothing at all if they force me into bankruptcy. What benefit is it to them if I declare bankruptcy? Is it just being vindictive or is there some financial benefit to them?

My credit is already shot full of holes so maybe declaring bankruptcy is like shooting a lame horse and just getting a new one, but the problem is that this stigma stays on your credit record for 10 years! It will make renting a new apartment tougher and it will make leasing a new vehicle tougher too, but if I stand still the ravenous wolves will eat me alive!

[free2breathe]

First, don't feel like a loser. You are just one among millions who have considered their options and decided to file. We've all ended up in a situation that we are ready to own up to and take the necessary steps to get our lives back in control. You will find very few people here who will treat you like a loser, for sure.

Pacer charges 8 cents for each page you view. You use your own name to log in, the registration process is quite simple really. People use it to follow up on their case, make sure paperwork is getting filed, see what the trustee's decisions are, etc. It is, of course, just an option for you. You don't have to use Pacer if you don't want to.

If you go to Texas bankruptcy court's site, click on the "Filing Resources" tab. I see that they have information for before you file, an entire petition package, information for Pro Se filers. It's a good place to start to familiarize yourself with the local rules etc.

The Nolo books will walk you through the steps for filling out the forms, etc. It's about $16 with a coupon for the Chapter 7 book.

I don't know about software to help you with the paperwork, though I'm sure it's out there. I just didn't look for any. I gathered all my information and went through the forms on my own. Maybe someone else here has information about the software out there.

Of course, the final decision about how or if to file is something only you can make. I won't say that filing Pro Se and filling out all your paperwork is easy, by any means, but it did seem to make sense for us. Time will tell if I'm right about doing it myself or not....I can only hope and pray for the best ;)

[strummerfan]

I think you can find an attorney for much less than $2000, one poster IRCC found a "green" younger attorney that represented them for $750 which is a lot of money but money very well spent IMO. In previous posts I admit I filed Pro Se for sport I could have paid an attorney but choose to go naked and lawyer up if need be.

If I were you I would try to find pro bono (free legal services first) a law school in your area or the court clerk should be able to provide attorneys that are providing free services. The BK procedure is very complicated and simply put is not Pro Se friendly. Forums like this make it much easier but you have to immerse yourself in the bk rules and procedures to be fully prepared. I empathize with your situation but I caution you to at least seek some free advice from licensed attorneys after my own experience in my 341 I think that if I went the preparer route and did nothing else I would have had a much less than favorable outcome.

In the mean time don't sweat and read the posts on this forum they are invaluable, but also remember that a few weeks ago the forum went down for some reason and many people had little venue to ask questions for help.

I hope all goes well for you.

[Dinero]

Serious Consequences

Thanks for that info free2breathe, now if you don't mind, I have a couple of follow-up questions. When I register on Pacer, do I use my real name or some sort of screen name like on this board? And what exactly is the purpose of registering there in the first place?

They charge 8 cents per page. Per page of what? I imagine it's per page of whatever I download, but what would I want to download?

As for the Nolo thing. I will look into it and may even buy one of their books to bone up on the rules of bankruptcy, but what about some sort of software to help me fill out the mountain of forms?

Has anyone on the board used a particularly good software package that they would recommend?

The final question is what about those companies that will prepare all the forms for you in one day? Are any of them any good?

The analogy I have in my head about all this is:
Option 1 go to an attorney if you have a spare $2,000 to have the attorney prepare the bankruptcy for you, but if I had that cash I might not need to file bankruptcy in the first place.

Option 2 is to have an expert fill out the paper work and take to court myself to file. (although, I must confess, I don't know exactly how to do that either). Do you just go to some window in Federal Court and say I need to file bankruptcy and here is my check for $299 and that is it?

Option 3 is to go online and find some website that will provide the software (like Turbo Tax) that will help me fill out the paperwork.

Filling out the mountain of paperwork is what I see as the first physical obstacle after overcoming the mental battle of making the momentous decision to file bankruptcy chapter 7.

Damn! I dread feeling like a failure and having a label of "Loser" stamped on my forehead if I file bankruptcy chapter 7, but if I don't I already have a lawsuit crouching in the dark waiting to pounce on me!

It seems like there are serious and long-term consequences awaiting me no matter what I do, but I must do something!

[free2breathe]

Public Access to Court Electronic Records (PACER) is an electronic public access service that allows users to obtain case and docket information from federal appellate, district and bankruptcy courts, and the PACER Case Locator via the Internet. PACER is provided by the federal Judiciary in keeping with its commitment to providing public access to court information via a centralized service.

You have to set up an account with them, and they charge 8 cents for every page you access. However, if you have less than $10 in access charges in one quarter, they won't charge you.

Nolo is a legal solutions company that publishes numerous books that help with legal issues. Their books include instructions and guidelines as well as forms. Check out their website. If you decide to order their online book, do a search on "Nolo coupons" online, and you can save $10 or a percentage off your total price.

[Dinero]

Please excuse the dumb question, but what is Pacer? I will Google the term, but any help is appreciated.

Also, filling out a hundred pages by myself is a very daunting task. I know I would screw something up and mess up an already emotional process.

When I fill out my income taxes I use software that walks me through the process.

What is some software that anyone here has used that would expedite the process for me? I am good with computers and want to use my computer to do most of the work.

Someone mentioned Nolo which is something I have not heard about. I will Google it, but can anyone comment further on that and on any recommended software systems online that will help me in filling out the forms.

I do not think I would ever fill out the mountain of paperwork by myself and I don't have two grand to pay a lawyer to do it for me.

[mrskal]

Ok, so then I should save and print each section off of pacer? I am worried to spend to much, but if I need to I will. I have no clue how many pages that amounts to. Anyone know?

[2manybills]

You should be going over every piece of paper that is filed with the Court. If you sign it, you're responsible for it.

[mrskal]

Yes, that is EXACTLY what we are saying. You have no idea--if you have not read through the various boards about how many $$$$ the majority of us posters have paid so-called professionals, be they lawyers, paralegals, or just knoweldgable clerks, to fill out the paperwork and get it correct--and DON'T.

You are the final arbitur of whether your paperwork is correct or not. You will be asked under oath at your 341 if everything in your petition is correct; did you review it; and did you sign off that it was correct.

So, what should I be going over? I had mine filed with a lawyer, and I have a great feeling about him. We went over everything when I signed. Ten they filed. Should I print something off of Pacer? I did save and print the page that lists where to go, who the trustee is etc... and the page that list the creditors. Is there more that I shoud save and print? I have officially spent .32 on Pacer! LOL

[2manybills]

It depends on the service and how reputable they are. When I prepare forms for folks, I do everything. Full document preparation, and also follow their case on Pacer and remind them when they should be doing things. Not all services will do that, but someone worth their salt that cares about the people they are helping will for sure.

[rjmwx81]

Are you saying you think it's better if I prepare ALL the paperwork myself?

That's exactly what I'm saying. I'm also saying that, if you end up hiring a service, you still end up doing most of the work. You still fill out forms, they just format it. And, whether you use a service or not, the court is going to see any errors as your fault.

[IFC]

This forum has a lot of good information to help you. You should confirm, whatever useful information you gleam, with a lawyer. Good Luck!

[free2breathe]

I think I agree with rjmwx81 as far as using a service to fill out the paperwork. Once you've spent all that time gathering the information, you could have the forms filled out. And if you use a service, you have to go over the paperwork with a fine tooth comb to check for accuracy. Nolo is a great resource for learning how to fill out your paperwork and filing on your own. You can find coupon codes online for them and their online book download will cost you about $16.