Which to do 1st?

[HakunaMatata]

If you intend to file BK, I would do so BEFORE the foreclosure has finalized. I, personally, didn't regard separate foreclosure and separate BK as favorable. I opted for the single, big, all-encompassing hit...good 'ole BK. You can include your mortgage in BK and it will be reflected on your credit report as such (instead of a foreclosure followed by a BK). I didn't want to have to deal with the double whammy separated over time. I intend to rebuild my credit; and, I'd prefer to know where I stand rather than anticipate future building blocks. BK can be advantageous in terms of future mortgage lending as well. The duration for getting a mortgage following BK is less than that of a strict foreclosure.

In my experiences, I haven't found many professionals who aren't biased. Your mortgage attorney may have an altruistic agenda for you; however, I'd question her motivations. If she truly believes she can buy you time in the house (more than you would receive during the BK process), ask for reasonable evidence.

You don't owe the current BK attorney benefit of doubt. Of course, you can pose questions and he may respond favorably. Some of us are intimidated by knowledge or simply don't know how to properly gauge alleged "knowledge". Employ your instincts and don't forget...YOU are the interviewer and this person is being hired by YOU to best represent YOUR interests.

As previously mentioned, emotion ebbed and flowed during my initial BK stages. I experienced morality issues, slight embarrassment (I was comforted by knowing I was making the best decision regarding my house), and notions of failure. I even had Nancy Kerrigan "why me" moments. Despite this, my logic and business-minded focus prevailed. As a result, I began sharing my situation and potential paths with others. I suppose I took the risk of external worry and judgment (I know I'm better at beating myself up than others!) in hopes of receiving guidance and feedback. I was initially shocked by the amount of successful, happy people who had BK backgrounds or those who fostered pro-BK stances. I now understand it.

To me, BK isn't exclusively about surrendering debt. It also involves surrendering stigmas and fears.

[DebtStinks]

I also just got off the phone with my mortgage attorney. In a nutshell, she said if I went ahead and did BK FIRST, that it would remove mostly, if not ALL of her leverage as my foreclosure defense attorney, when I don't reaffirm the mortgages. She does NOT recommending hurrying up with the BK. Anyone have any feedback on this comment?

Well what's your mortgage attorney's game plan to make your $175k underwater investment something you should stick with? Lower your interest rates and extend the terms out to 40 years? Great now you have lower payments on a crappy investment that you MIGHT break even on after 40 years. Or is he saying that he can shoot for a principle reduction? Which first are VERY rare... and guess what even if you do get one there is usually a little * there that points to the fine print. If you ever sell the house for a profit you have the pay back the forgiven balance. Sweet now you have an investment that really isn't an investment since you'll never see a profit.

Really the only way to get money back out of that place to stay in it and stop making payments. Stay as long as you can and bank the mortgage payments into savings. Unless I'm missing something... what's your attorney's plan?

[ediev]

If posters have attorney recommendations, they can send them to you in a private message.

It definitely sounds like you should continue attorney shopping. This may help to confirm or deny your current heebie jeebies. I think most of us experience initial discomfort since the BK/attorney interviewing process is foreign to us. Many of us tend to think our cases and circumstances are ultra-unique...which contributes to the discomfort. For most, we learn in hindsight we're not so special.

Consultations will vary. Some attorneys offer general BK overviews while others will touch on personal factors. It's important to remember free doesn't typically go far. As I gained knowledge, I was able to address issues that concerned me during consults. I also prepared a list of questions and provided basic income/expense information. I had one attorney who willingly plugged numbers throughout the consultation and another who not only eased my fears verbally, he also provided documentation substantiating his claims (I tend to have a show me proof personality ).

If possible, try to get recommendations from others. I know many don't feel comfortable discussing BK status with friends or co-workers; although, I found them to be excellent resources. I contacted attorney friends (who worked outside the BK domain) for recommendations and ultimately selected my CPA's referral. Not only did I benefit by receiving referrals, I surprisingly discovered numerous individuals who had been through the BK process.

Yes, yes yes, Hakuna - I have several lawyer type friends (no one specializing in BK though) - but this is not something I have had the courage to discuss with them. And you know, the weirdest thing about all of this, is that I have this overwhelming urge to tell EVERYONE I know, especially those people who I know for a fact are in the same boat (worse even) - mortgage wise. I want to help! I want to show people there are outs - and that they are not stuck. That they don't need to use their life savings or retirement funds to "hold on" with the hopes of financial matters improving. That life will not be over as you know it, but rather you will be allowed a grand, new, fresh beginning (and I'm not even on the other side yet). But what holds me back in sharing my knowledge is the sheer fact I know people in general want to be stereotypically "responsible" (myself included) and they want to "do the right thing" and shun BK/Foreclosure in general. There are emotions/stigmas involved. I understand this - i had to overcome this as well to embrace and enjoice in my decision. I believe many of my friends and family will not see it my way. I don't want to lecture them or try to convince them what I'm doing is right. I want them to know the relief of choosing my way to a better life. But for fear they'd worry, or judge, I remain quite with my choices and hold back with my celebrations. I simply don't trust the majority will see it my way. I have a "date" with an attorney friend this w/e (Super Bowl party)...let's see if I have the courage to ask him for a recommendation

On the BK attorney note...Because my only experience with my attornery so far, was with my "free" consultation, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I am going to schedule another appt with him, now that he is officially retained and see if we can have a more in-depth conversation with more guidance and more of a plan specific to my needs...see if some of the "bad vibes" can be alleviated. Then I'll take it from there.

Oh and BTW - I agree with you - my case I believe, is pretty standard stuff. (I'm not special )...but I want my lawyer to make me feel special anyways LOL.

I also just got off the phone with my mortgage attorney. In a nutshell, she said if I went ahead and did BK FIRST, that it would remove mostly, if not ALL of her leverage as my foreclosure defense attorney, when I don't reaffirm the mortgages. She does NOT recommending hurrying up with the BK. Anyone have any feedback on this comment?

[HakunaMatata]

If posters have attorney recommendations, they can send them to you in a private message.

It definitely sounds like you should continue attorney shopping. This may help to confirm or deny your current heebie jeebies. I think most of us experience initial discomfort since the BK/attorney interviewing process is foreign to us. Many of us tend to think our cases and circumstances are ultra-unique...which contributes to the discomfort. For most, we learn in hindsight we're not so special.

Consultations will vary. Some attorneys offer general BK overviews while others will touch on personal factors. It's important to remember free doesn't typically go far. As I gained knowledge, I was able to address issues that concerned me during consults. I also prepared a list of questions and provided basic income/expense information. I had one attorney who willingly plugged numbers throughout the consultation and another who not only eased my fears verbally, he also provided documentation substantiating his claims (I tend to have a show me proof personality ).

If possible, try to get recommendations from others. I know many don't feel comfortable discussing BK status with friends or co-workers; although, I found them to be excellent resources. I contacted attorney friends (who worked outside the BK domain) for recommendations and ultimately selected my CPA's referral. Not only did I benefit by receiving referrals, I surprisingly discovered numerous individuals who had been through the BK process.

[ediev]

Hakuna - thanks for the "pardon" on me not having to reply to everyone who replies to my thread. However, for the time being anyways, I do feel the need and for the most part, the replies leave me with more questions. Right now, my question/concerns have changed somewhat. I read through your article re selecting an attorney and it left me wondering if I retained a "dud". I read through my contract (no refunds btw), thought about the consultation I had with him, and I do believe he raised the majority of the red flags outlined in the article. So I slept on it - awoke with the same heebie-jeebies. I now want to visit some other attorneys. Honestly I would prefer more of a boutique-type place. No big fancy office - just talk to me and impress me with your knowledge, experience and customer service. Is that too much to ask?

So I want to do a few more attorney interviews. I don't know if this is against the forum policies or not (I'm sure someone will let me know if it is), but I would sure like any suggestions for a BK attorney in Miami-Dade County. Anyone have an attorney in the area they would recommend??? Don't want to go through the yellow pages!

DebtStinks - My business has no assets - I don't think they'll want our 2-4 year old computers (2 of them) and 10 year old printers - although they can have them if they want them - they're really just in the way at this point. Oh and I should not forget my banged up hand-me-down desk, of which who knows how old it is???? WE are the business. Service providers. We get paid BEFORE the service is performed, otherwise it is simply not performed. If they take us away, no one would pay, despite wether or not they've agreed to do it for 6 months or not (and that is not even binding - they can pull out at any time). As a matter of fact, if they took us away, they would end up owing people money, as some people may have already paid for 3 months of service, which without us - you take away that service, so refunds are due. Unless I'm missing something, I think we're OK. Our biz & the service we provide is actually pretty unique and I would love to explain in detail to get some feedback on any pitfalls, but I'm afraid it would clearly point out to any lurking banks or trustees or whoever who I am. This is paranoid thinking, I know...but still...can't help it. My only fear in this whole process is that they take away my ability to earn money they way I've been doing it for the past 8+ years.

[DebtStinks]

Fantastic DebtStinks! Good job on this little tool. I've tried playing with some others, but yours was by far the easiest.

The outcome is however, what I already knew - I'm currently poor! Doesn't look like I'll have any problems filing BK7 I am just still concerned about my biz though. Clearly we are not making millions, but it lets my husband & I stay home & spend our time the way WE want to-specifically with our young children. It would truly suck if they took it away, especially since it currently produces income BELOW the median income!

Well what kind of business... all service related? Any business assets like inventory or the like? I also ran a home business but it's NOTHING without me so it has zero value to anyone. This is the way most home businesses are... and it's not something they can take away.

[HakunaMatata]

Don't feel obligated to respond to each and every comment. Most of us have been you...and we're here trying to pay it forward.

One of my consult attorneys SUCKED. Big time. Evidence of such surfaced when he asked "are you going to screw your Credit Union too?". I was a straight no asset, not a dime hiding in my couch, under the median, honest chica. This consult attorney nearly demanded a retainer. I was new to the process -fearful and uncomfortable. Thankfully, I was so baffled by his comments and demeanor; I didn't give this slime ball my money. However, I did ask if he accepted credit cards!

Cost isn't necessarily an indicator of a good attorney. In my case, the aforementioned slime ball was the most expensive. Business levels aren't necessarily indicative of quality either (I consulted with an independent attorney who had extremely reasonable fees, a modest office, a meager staff, a wealth of knowledge/experience, and offered personalized service in a quiet office setting). Knowledge, experience, and personality factored into my decision. I wanted my BK process to work...and a solid working relationship was pivotal as well.

[ediev]

Awww...thank you.

Regarding the BK attorney...

Did you sign a contract? What portion of his fee did you pay? If hearty, you may be able to recover some of your money (especially if this attorney hasn't invested considerable time into your case). You may want to rephrase your attorney comment "I want my money back. You suck"...although, I really like it!!

If you're on the fence with this attorney, schedule a few more consultations. The attorney interviewing process can be frustrating (I was shocked by the varying suggestions/interpretations); although, it can be beneficial. For me, the process (while confusing at times) spurred new questions, increased my knowledge, and aided in gaining momentum and confidence.

Below is a link a great article HHM offered me as I was engaged in the attorney interviewing process. If you intend to meet with the current attorney, you may want to pose some of the included questions...

http://askmethner.com/?p=609

My comment was sincere and deserved.

I will check this site out too...and we did not put down much of a retainer - as we weren't really preparing to do anything for a long time - they just wanted something in order to get the go ahead to start perhaps deterring CA calls and the like. Not too concerned about never seeing that moola again - but I won't pay anything else until I've met with him again and feel he's the right match for me. (I don't doubt he's legitamely good at what he does - just maybe not for my personality? esp since he is VERY, VERY BUSY!) Aren't they are? Oh and he does not come cheap - at least I think $2,000 (w/o court costs) is not a cheap BK 7?

Thank you all so much - hard to keep up with all the replies. I'm feeling the love people - thank you thank you thank you!

[ediev]

That site is outdated.

The new Florida wildcard exemption went into effect in 2007. If you are not claiming a homestead exemption-you are surrendering the home-you may take a $4k exemption in addition to the exemptions listed on that site. For a married coupe, you can double, creating $8k in wildcard exemptions.

http://www.bankruptcyorlando.com/2008/02/florida-court-c.html

It is unfortunate, but many sites still use the outdated information, and I can only wonder how many people have inadvertently hurt their case by being misinformed.

Note that you MUST indicate your intent to surrender in order to claim this exemption. There is case-law already established to this effect. A debtor in one case initially claimed she would be keeping the house, and later changed her mind. I think she was trying to do a ride-through but also needed the wildcard exemption. She ended up being denied the wildcard, but only because she initially indicated she would keep the home.

Seriously people - I have participated in a lot of forums in my life, but never have i received such valuable and QUICK information! You people rock! I will check this site out - but i feel like i don't even need to go anywhere else! I am eternally grateful and hopefully one day I'll be able to pay it forward.

[HakunaMatata]

Sleep well tonight knowing this post will make at least one other person have a peaceful night's sleep Thank you so much!

Awww...thank you.

Regarding the BK attorney...

Did you sign a contract? What portion of his fee did you pay? If hearty, you may be able to recover some of your money (especially if this attorney hasn't invested considerable time into your case). You may want to rephrase your attorney comment "I want my money back. You suck"...although, I really like it!!

If you're on the fence with this attorney, schedule a few more consultations. The attorney interviewing process can be frustrating (I was shocked by the varying suggestions/interpretations); although, it can be beneficial. For me, the process (while confusing at times) spurred new questions, increased my knowledge, and aided in gaining momentum and confidence.

Below is a link to a great article HHM offered me as I was engaged in the attorney interviewing process. If you intend to meet with the current attorney, you may want to pose some of the included questions...

http://askmethner.com/?p=609

[ediev]

Means test really only comes into play if you are above median income or if you schedules show significant income regardless of income. You might want to just play around with the means test to get a better idea of how things work. Try this means test wizard that I wrote when messing around with our bankruptcy:

http://www.johnfire.com/meanstest/wizard.php

** I haven't updated the IRS data but it should still be within a couple of percent.

Fantastic DebtStinks! Good job on this little tool. I've tried playing with some others, but yours was by far the easiest.

The outcome is however, what I already knew - I'm currently poor! Doesn't look like I'll have any problems filing BK7 I am just still concerned about my biz though. Clearly we are not making millions, but it lets my husband & I stay home & spend our time the way WE want to-specifically with our young children. It would truly suck if they took it away, especially since it currently produces income BELOW the median income!

[DebtStinks]

That site is outdated.

The new Florida wildcard exemption went into effect in 2007. If you are not claiming a homestead exemption-you are surrendering the home-you may take a $4k exemption in addition to the exemptions listed on that site. For a married coupe, you can double, creating $8k in wildcard exemptions.

http://www.bankruptcyorlando.com/2008/02/florida-court-c.html

It is unfortunate, but many sites still use the outdated information, and I can only wonder how many people have inadvertently hurt their case by being misinformed.

Note that you MUST indicate your intent to surrender in order to claim this exemption. There is case-law already established to this effect. A debtor in one case initially claimed she would be keeping the house, and later changed her mind. I think she was trying to do a ride-through but also needed the wildcard exemption. She ended up being denied the wildcard, but only because she initially indicated she would keep the home.

Grrr, I had the same issue with CA and it took some searching to find the most recent exemptions. But that page for FL that I linked said: "This list of exemptions updated December 2009" so I assumed it was current.

Sorry about that.

[DeadManCrawling]

That site is outdated.

The new Florida wildcard exemption went into effect in 2007. If you are not claiming a homestead exemption-you are surrendering the home-you may take a $4k exemption in addition to the exemptions listed on that site. For a married coupe, you can double, creating $8k in wildcard exemptions.

http://www.bankruptcyorlando.com/2008/02/florida-court-c.html

It is unfortunate, but many sites still use the outdated information, and I can only wonder how many people have inadvertently hurt their case by being misinformed.

Note that you MUST indicate your intent to surrender in order to claim this exemption. There is case-law already established to this effect. A debtor in one case initially claimed she would be keeping the house, and later changed her mind. I think she was trying to do a ride-through but also needed the wildcard exemption. She ended up being denied the wildcard, but only because she initially indicated she would keep the home.

[DebtStinks]

Read the paperwork you signed when you retained him... odds are no refunds.

[ediev]

http://www.thebankruptcysite.org/exe...s/florida.html

From what I see above FL exemptions pretty much suck for people that are under water on their homes. It looks to be setup to protect all the equity that you might have in your house and not much else. Only 1k for a car? Really!?!? The wildcard does look to be only 1k per person (2k for joint BK).

Learn everything you can about bankruptcy THEN start hitting the free consultations with some lawyers. You will quickly find that YOU know more about bankruptcy than some of these lawyers. It seems that many lawyers are just hiring paralegals that know bankruptcy and having them do most of the work so they can capitalize on the surge in filings. Run, don't walk, from places like this.

Yep - that's what i thought.

I've actually already retained a lawyer (2 actually - 1 that specializes in foreclosures - 1 in BK). I'm not 100% sure if I jumped the gun with the BK attorney. He is established, been around for a while and was recommended. HOWEVER, we specifically asked for an appt with him. Once there, one of his "assistants" started talking to us - we basically said "We want to speak with so & so"...he said..."I'm just taking notes - he'll be with you shortly". Which IS what happened...BUT the "asst" attempted to answer our questions in the meantime, and his replies were NOT accurate or reassuring whatsoever - on the verge perhaps of being even illegal. When the lawyer finally did join us, he listened and answered our questions, and did seem knowledgeable. But, I did feel he was a little hurried to move on to the next appt, and gave us the impression of - no problem - it's easy. I'm a person that needs to know all the details (can you tell?) I did not get them at the time, however this was the initial consultaton and at the time, our game plan was to file BK perhaps 18 months down the road. I've already paid the retainer. I'm going to attempt to meet with him next week with our new game plan. If for some reason I still don't feel 100%, heck "75%" confident in him, would I be able to say - I want my money back - you suck?