Wells Fargo froze my account

[DeadManCrawling]

Dismissing takes a motion and a ruling from the judge, I believe.

Read back on the thread here and you will see the steps others took to unfreeze their funds. It is too bad this happened over the holiday, but obtaining a dismissal will likely take longer than unfreezing the funds.

Call your attorney, they will know how to get this done the quickest.

Good luck.

[whipster1]

Sorry to hear your situation OP. Wells is the WORST about freezing accounts for no reason. My attorney says that there will be some lawsuits against them soon for this but not in time to help you.

[figureitout]

I've got 15K frozen in Wells Fargo -- just found out today. Filed BK this past Monday. Tomorrow is Thanksgiving so I'm screwed until at least Monday. So what if I just dismiss the BK -- wouldn't Wells Fargo have to release the money? I'm so confused about what to do.

[WhatMoney]

Geez again...my mother is in her 90s and in a nursing home...there is no way I'm getting her over to the bank or a new bank just to do this kind of crapola. She's legally blind -- her signature isn't even something that resembles writing. It's one reason I or my sister have paid the bills for several years. I do have POA but the paperwork is from another state and a few times places have balked that the addresses no longer are valid, etc.

I'm thinking pay the WF loan off right away and hope for the best... trying to get my name off sounds like it will open a can of worms. The part about it possibly taking 60 days means this could all be moot if I file in January...

Paying off your WF loan will protect your mother's account before the BK. But if you keep a joint account with your mother you must report that in your BK filing, and WF will probably freeze your mother's account when you file. Money in a joint account is equally owned by either party. Of course you will be able to get the trustee to call WF and release for your mother's SSA income, just as jshep had to do.

I was able to open a joint account with my mother for her SSA DD without her presence back in 1998, using only my DPOA. Every bank I have asked will no longer do this; 911 and terrorist security laws are the excuses they use now. They require her presence (impossible - in her mid 90's and totally disabled in a nursing home) to open a joint account, or my only option is to open a DPOA account or Representative Payee account for her, where I am only the trustee. When my mother dies, the DPOA and Rep. Payee expires, and any funds remaining after death are frozen by the bank as estate funds, to be distributed only by the estate - often a long process.

[jshep]

I finally received a notice from Wells Fargo in the mail today that my accounts were frozen. The notice is dated November 6, and it didn't show up here until November 12th.

Of course, it's all unfrozen now, but, this is the first time anybody has notified me that the account funds were made unavailable.

If I'm reading this letter correctly, Wells would hold the funds until 30 days after the first meeting of creditors if they were not directed by the Trustee to do otherwise.

Hopefully, if they send a copy of this letter to my Mother-In-Law, who is recovering from a stroke and broken hip, she won't forget that this is already taken care of and have another stroke. I know I felt like having a stroke last week when I suddenly couldn't use my account without notice.

[Snickers]

nickifan - Personally, I would never trust that your name was truly removed unless there was a new account.

- Go to the bank with your sister (you said she was also on the account) and the DPOA.
- Tell them that you would like to open a new account with just your Mother & Sister's name.
- If it comes up, just tell them that you are having 'family issues' and thought it would be safer to have the account joint with just your sister.
(Let 'em think what they want...crazy Uncle objecting to you having access...doesn't matter.)
- Ask them to keep the old account open for a little while until the Direct Deposits are straightened out.

Since they get to keep the account, they really shouldn't have any objections. Maybe your sister can sign the checks for a time. When the dust settles from your situation, just head over to the bank and put your name back on the account.

[nickifan]

Good luck with that. Most banks will insist you close the joint account and have your mother open a new account only in her name, if you want your name off the joint account. If WF allows you to remove your name, they will insist your mother and you be present before they change the joint account. I doubt they will do this - banks are no longer friendly to their customers.

So you will still need to change the direct deposit information if your mother gets a new account with WF. It's not clear how you intend to have access to her account and pay her bills and sign her checks, unless you intend to pose as your mother. As a reward to WF, you should find another bank for your mother's direct deposits if they refuse to remove you as a joint holder.

Once you have a new account, your mother can change her direct deposit by calling Social Security, or by filling out a direct deposit form that you get at your local social security office. It takes from 20-60 days for the change to go into effect.

Geez again...my mother is in her 90s and in a nursing home...there is no way I'm getting her over to the bank or a new bank just to do this kind of crapola. She's legally blind -- her signature isn't even something that resembles writing. It's one reason I or my sister have paid the bills for several years. I do have POA but the paperwork is from another state and a few times places have balked that the addresses no longer are valid, etc.

I'm thinking pay the WF loan off right away and hope for the best... trying to get my name off sounds like it will open a can of worms. The part about it possibly taking 60 days means this could all be moot if I file in January...

Still no reply from yesterday's email to atty about my residency issues and hopeful avoidance of NY prop exemptions. As this very critical point of how/when to file stemmed from the initial consult, and I have not formally hired her...is it reasonable of me to expect an answer? I'd like to ask about this whole WF thing again, but I'm not sure at what point an atty will think I'm just trying to get more free info. (As if I were even considering pro se...no way.)

OR...I can interview a third atty and ask them....

[WhatMoney]

Second thought: Rather than moving her account (dealing with SS and pension direct deposit changes will be a nightmare)...what about just getting my name OFF it? Not that I can think of a good reason to tell WF why I want off other than "I don't want you to S---- with me when I discharge your loan...."

Good luck with that. Most banks will insist you close the joint account and have your mother open a new account only in her name, if you want your name off the joint account. If WF allows you to remove your name, they will insist your mother and you be present before they change the joint account. I doubt they will do this - banks are no longer friendly to their customers.

So you will still need to change the direct deposit information if your mother gets a new account with WF. It's not clear how you intend to have access to her account and pay her bills and sign her checks, unless you intend to pose as your mother. As a reward to WF, you should find another bank for your mother's direct deposits if they refuse to remove you as a joint holder.

Once you have a new account, your mother can change her direct deposit by calling Social Security, or by filling out a direct deposit form that you get at your local social security office. It takes from 20-60 days for the change to go into effect.

[DeadManCrawling]

Removing your name from her account will cause YOU problems.

Paying off the loan, if you can do so, may cause the bank problems. Which is kind of nice.

If it is ruled a preferential payment, the trustee will simpy take the money back from the bank and spread it around. Which doesn't hurt you a bit, other than the fact that you paid it off.

It is unclear, though, WHY some banks freeze accounts. For some it seems to be a dollar figure on the balances. For others, a cross-collateralization. For others, unkknown factors.

Good luck, and best wishes.

[nickifan]

Thanks for the reply, whatmoney. Geez...what a mess. I'm more upset about possibly messing with her bank stuff than my own situation. Oh, for foresight....

A quick thought: What if I just go ahead and pay off the damn WF loan before filing?? Or at this point is that "preferential"? As I say, I have no other connections to WF besides that small loan, and my name on her bank account.

Second thought: Rather than moving her account (dealing with SS and pension direct deposit changes will be a nightmare)...what about just getting my name OFF it? Not that I can think of a good reason to tell WF why I want off other than "I don't want you to S---- with me when I discharge your loan...."

I have a headache just thinking about these ramifications.

[WhatMoney]

Oh dear...now I'm worried too!! I have this exact situation. My sister and I are both on my _mother's WF checking/savings account. I pay mom's bills.
The account is funded SOLELY by Mom's Social Security (under $1300 a month) and her small pension (under $200).

Now I'm rethinking after reading this post!! The other problem is --I don't have a WF account "on my own", but I DO have a Wells Fargo Financial loan, which I still owe about $475 on and would include in the discharge. My mother's bank account is never over $1500.
What to do??

Wells Fargo likely has the right to offset in your mother's accounts as well as your WF loan. This gives the bank the right to take money from any accounts with your name on them from WF to pay off your loan if you stop paying on it. That includes your mother's Social Security and pension funds. These right to offset agreements often specifically state that SSA funds are NOT exempt from their right of offset. Your mother could end up paying off your loan you wanted to include in your BK.

The only safe solution is to move your mother's Social Security account to another bank. But if you still want to be a joint owner on her account, that account is still subject to a levy if you get sued before your BK. You would need to explain and prove to the court that the funds in your mother's account are exempt to get her funds released. You would also need to find a bank that does not freeze funds until they are released by the trustee as WF does.

To avoid the danger of your debt affecting your mother's income, you must find a way to avoid joint ownership. There are a few options:

1.) Become a Representative Payee for your mother's SSA ONLY account. Since you are not a joint owner, only her trustee on this account, a judgment against you should not be able to touch these funds. And before you open a rep. payee account you need to discuss this with the bank manager or legal dept. to confirm they understand this and agree they will not honor a levy against a Representative Payee account. Note you should not deposit pension funds in a Rep. Payee account. You can find out about Rep. Payees at the Social Security site.

2) Become a Power of Attorney (preferably Durable POA) for your mother. You should then have signature rights to manage you mother's account and pay the bills, while you're name does not appear on the account as the owner. Again, the bank has to agree to this - bank's are becoming more reluctant to honor POA's these days. This type of account is usually called a Power of Attorney account by the banks.

3) Open an online checking account at an out of state bank for your mother and use direct deposit of SSA. You can manage that account with a POA as well - I won't say anymore about the possibilities here.

4) Open a joint checking account with your mother in an out-of-state bank and hope no one finds it. After BK, you could return to a local bank.

Finally you need to confirm whether the pension income for your mother is also exempt. It would be safest to keep the SSA deposit account separated from the pension funds in case a creditor argued the SSA and pension funds were mixed and therefore you mother's SSA was not exempt. Note I said argue - it's what they can convince the judge that counts, not the laws.

[nickifan]

[QUOTE=jshep;347143]At some point, my wife went on her Mom's bank account at.... you guessed it... Wells Fargo, so she could help her by paying her bills for her.
So... when Wells Fargo froze our accounts, they froze my wife's Mother's accounts too, because she appears as a signer.
QUOTE]

Oh dear...now I'm worried too!! I have this exact situation. My sister and I are both on my _mother's WF checking/savings account. I pay mom's bills.
The account is funded SOLELY by Mom's Social Security (under $1300 a month) and her small pension (under $200).

I _did ask the BK atty about this very thing in the free consult. Initially she said 'get your name off', then when I told her how it's funded she thought it would be okay, if we had "explanatory" information with the paperwork..

Now I'm rethinking after reading this post!! The other problem is --I don't have a WF account "on my own", but I DO have a Wells Fargo Financial loan, which I still owe about $475 on and would include in the discharge. My mother's bank account is never over $1500.

What to do?? Would the resident lawyers please chime in? If it matters we're all in TX. I haven't wanted to say that on a public forum (paranoid) but if it helps with advice, there it is.

What a PITA....

[Mi Bankruptcy]

I just opened new accounts at Wachovia...not realizing they were bought by Wells Fargo.

Our mortgage is with Wells Fargo. Should I try and find a different bank? I'm not sure how connected they are yet.

I would. This will help eliminate the 'what ifs' and 'is it possible' questions that will sit in the back of your head. My thought is you want peace of mind. Nothing may ever come of using Wachovia. Personally, I wouldn't want to take the chance.

[mummy]

I just opened new accounts at Wachovia...not realizing they were bought by Wells Fargo.

Our mortgage is with Wells Fargo. Should I try and find a different bank? I'm not sure how connected they are yet.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

i don't understand why the freeze's are random. I have muiltiple accounts at Wells Fargo; and none of mine were frozen.

Maybe it's a regional decision if they freeze for BK?

How odd... Anyway, due to an unrelated issue i will be closing my accounts there after the BK is finished.

Glad to see you got your funds back so quickly

jribe-- I think from what we continue to see here is it makes it easier to freeze these accounts against people who bank where they also get loans like. So, if you BOA, Union or Wells and you have mortgage ect.. they are going to freeze your accounts. I never felt comfortable with the idea of banking where I have loans. I was pretty much forced to open a account one time to apply for a car loan when I was younger. I opened it and left $50.00 and went and banked with another bank after I got the loan.

Wells has been trying to get me to open a account with and promise of HELOC.. NO WAY